Scapular position during push up movements

Ok, so I've noticed during my push ups that I retract my shoulders before bending my arms and descending. I'm not sure if this is correct or not but I'm thinking not.

What should the scapular be doing throughout the whole movement?

I understand and the top you should be fully protracted. I assume at the bottom you should be fully retracted, is this correct?

What about the movements in between? How should the shoulders be during the ascent and descent? 

Thanks and sorry if this has been answered in detail before, I couldn't find a clear answer.

Points your elbow to your toes. Body in line from shoulders to ankles. Abs tight, butt tight. Shoulder blades move apart on the top of movement, they squeeze together on the bottom. Your chest touches the ground each rep. A pushup.

I hope you like my poem, lol. But seriously, that's all you need to know mechanically, other than that. Breathe and knock 'em out.

Thanks. I know I'm over analysing this movement but I want to make sure I'm recruiting the right muscles.

Depending on if I'm protracted/retracted/neutral during the ascent and descent different muscles are being worked. 

There's no need to over think these. Elbows in, tight glutes, chest touches the ground and a controlled tempo.

All the best advice has been said : ) Goodluck

Film yourself doing them from the same angle as the demo video. If your form looks the same, then you are good. If not, and if you are unsure why not, then post a form check video and others can help you figure out what you need to adjust.

The thing I find difficult with this movement when comparing with the course video is the protraction. From what I can judge from the video the upper back stays flat throughout the movement. I can replicate the video at the top and bottom position but I always loose the protraction slightly during the descent and ascent, even for the incline push-ups. It is hard to see whether this occurs in the course video, and doesn't really show unless you film from another angle (I noticed it in the mirror).

Agree about keeping it simple. That being said...

From what I understand you should try to protract at the top, and attempt to keep protraction throughout the bottom portion. Do not actively retract. You won't be able to keep the protraction obviously, but you should try to. I believe Jon Douglas mentioned this in a post a while back, and I'll track it down if anyone is interested.

TANSTAAFL said:

Agree about keeping it simple. That being said...

From what I understand you should try to protract at the top, and attempt to keep protraction throughout the bottom portion. Do not actively retract. You won't be able to keep the protraction obviously, but you should try to. I believe Jon Douglas mentioned this in a post a while back, and I'll track it down if anyone is interested.

IIRC I was talking particularly about PPP and PPP+, but unless you want to emphasise scrap retr for some reason then I stand by that. No need to over exaggerate it. Do your time with the basic pushup and move into something more productive. Of course your standards should be very high, but there is a point at which you are making up details that complicate without adding value commensurate with the effort

Principle aside, I find actively retracting on these extremely awkward. Just me?

For inquiring minds:

PrimalMove said:

On the push-up, does the scapula protract completely during the concentric movement and retract during the eccentric movement?

Jon Douglas said:

No, not full retraction, these are not scap shrugs. Bottom of a PPP for example, I'm still trying to protract. Bent arm planche, still trying to protract. Can I get to full protraction? No. But I don't retract.

Adding protraction at the top = good idea, good habit. Locking in that protraction as much as possible to keep your body hollow and tight from shoulders to toes whilst you put out pushups = good reps, good habits for PPP, pl leans, etc. Actively retracting = body sagging, emphasis away from working body parts, disconnect in power to the arms IME.

Thanks for digging that up TANSTAAFL, that's helpful and thanks Jon!

Trying to protract throughout the movement will be my new focus point for this exercise! Just to add as well that I don't actively try to retract, I just noticed I did.

About scapula position : the key point is to keep your scapula depressed (shoulder blades down) during the whole exercise ! It will allow you to avoid (distal) proximal biceps tendon (shoulder joint) pain / injury.

Furthermore, your degree of protraction will not be the same during the whole movement. You need to be fully protracted at the top but definitely not at the bottom. Just focus on being protracted at the top and on keeping the depression. The degree of depression (fully depressed scapula) should on the contrary remain the same

Krel said:

About scapula position : the key point is to keep your scapula depressed (shoulder blades down) during the whole exercise ! It will allow you to avoid distal biceps tendon (shoulder joint) pain / injury.

Furthermore, your degree of protraction will not be the same during the whole movement. You need to be fully protracted at the top but definitely not at the bottom. Just focus on being protracted at the top and on keeping the depression. The degree of depression (fully depressed scapula) should on the contrary remain the same

This

Krel said:

About scapula position : the key point is to keep your scapula depressed (shoulder blades down) during the whole exercise ! It will allow you to avoid (distal) proximal biceps tendon (shoulder joint) pain / injury.

Furthermore, your degree of protraction will not be the same during the whole movement. You need to be fully protracted at the top but definitely not at the bottom. Just focus on being protracted at the top and on keeping the depression. The degree of depression (fully depressed scapula) should on the contrary remain the same

This was a recent revelation for me. I had previously been cheating myself in SPL/HBP by elevating the shoulders to get that nice rounded upper back protraction look. I think I confused protraction with rounded back seen from the side, rather than shoulder blades separated and flat upper back, which I think is correct? However, once depressing my body came to feel as a single unit from toe to shoulder. Initially the exercises were significantly more taxing, especially SPL/PE3, but now it just feels right and much stronger.