Why so little rest in Foundation?

In the strength training world, it is "common knowledge" that you must rest sufficiently between sets in order to maximize strength gains. So why is rest not really allowed in foundation? We typically get somewhere between 10-30 seconds of "rest" with a mobility element (that is often actually quite tiring in itself), with the occasional 60 second mobility element. For instance, FL/PE3>iM is not too strenuous, but is a very short break between sHBH. Another example: HBP/PE2>iM is a bit longer, but isn't very restful. Then we have things like the SLS series in F2.

Why are we not allowing more rest to (theoretically) improve strength gains?

Not doubting the programming but rather trying to get a better understanding of why we do the things we do in GB! Thanks in advance for your insight.

The point is to gain work capacity, which is needed to advance through the ring strength series - the warmup for R1 is apparently a circuit of the mastery level of foundation exercises.

strength is not the main focus, especially at pe3. we are building up tissue and work capacity (muscular endurance). the less you rest, the more you force the body to use anaerobic glycolysis and to make that system more effecient

My approach is to rest if I need it but mastery requires no additional rest. During my last HBP PE:3 I started out with no additional rest but for the last 2 sets took an extra few minutes so I could meet the reps. Once I hit 5x10r I'll work on reducing additional rest time.

Conversely I'm using the 30s mastery template (instead of the 60s which was too big a jump each week) for RC PE:6 and FL PE:6 so that I can progress each week with no need implement additional rest.

As others have said; the goal is work capacity.

When I get there.....

I want to be able to muscle-up into support, descend into a cross, pull to L-support, and descend into a maltese.

I don't want to muscle-up, descend into a cross, drop to the ground to catch my breath.  Muscle-up to L-support, drop to the ground to catch my breath.  Muscle-up and descend into a maltese.

if I remember correctly, Vascularization is why we do the  repetitive work with then added mobility. the area you're working develops more blood vessels and it increases the density of them per square inch or whatever measurement applies, meaning it would improve tissue health(joints from repetitive movement) and the added blood vessels would help in recovery, im guessing. 

would explain why now we dont get sore or tired from doing "x" movement, compared to when we were kids learning how to walk or playing on the monkey bars, etc, it becomes a movement that is pretty much always accessible to us at most times. 

Keilani Gutierrez said:

if I remember correctly, Vascularization is why we do the  repetitive work with then added mobility. the area you're working develops more blood vessels and it increases the density of them per square inch or whatever measurement applies, meaning it would improve tissue health(joints from repetitive movement) and the added blood vessels would help in recovery, im guessing. 

 

would explain why now we dont get sore or tired from doing "x" movement, compared to when we were kids learning how to walk or playing on the monkey bars, etc, it becomes a movement that is pretty much always accessible to us at most times. 

Does this mean we are better off doing less reps and having no additional rest between sets? Or do we still get this kind of benefit when we're having additional rest since we're still fatiguing the muscles sufficiently? I ask because I have had to add rest to the HBP PE2 and RC1 in order to get any kind of advancement. 

I'd love to know the answer to this because I'm already so many months in and would like to know I;m tackling this plateau correctly.

Cheers

Ben

I've found it varies, for FL I've made better progress doing fewer reps but keeping the rest to just the IM but HBP benefited from additional rest that I reduced over time one I was doing 5x15r.

^Yeah, I think the answer will be somewhat individual and movement specific. Increasing volume is increasing volume. Once you get to your desired volume, if you have been taking longer rests, you can just increase the density (take shorter rests) till you eventually reach mastery volume and density.

Of course if you can keep the rest to only the iM's and still make progress volume wise straight on to mastery that will be the faster road, but if you had to take a detour and add additional rest it will still get you to mastery eventually.

Years of low-rep weight training have taught me to fear the discomfort of "the burn", so I almost always avoid any additional rest between sets other than the iM.

For me getting better is as much a matter of steeling my work ethic as my musculoskeletal tissue, so I reduce the volume as much as is necessary to move through without taking extra rest. I make small steps forward in volume while attempting to keep the rest to iM time only.

It's possible my progress this way is slower than it could be, but the gains are cemented rather nicely while keeping the discomfort level during the workout appropriately high.

As said above, work capacity. Foundation is focused on building work capacity, joint integrity and mobility. Taking 3-5 minute rests between sets is good for developing maximal strength, but that's not the purpose of Foundation. 

With all this said, you may find that some of the foundation work will require longer rest for you to build the strength before moving on to work capacity. This is ok as long as you eventually minimize the rest times. Just don't make this an excuse to be lazy. If you don't feel something is close to your maximal strength then you should be reducing rest.

BenHack said:

Does this mean we are better off doing less reps and having no additional rest between sets? Or do we still get this kind of benefit when we're having additional rest since we're still fatiguing the muscles sufficiently? I ask because I have had to add rest to the HBP PE2 and RC1 in order to get any kind of advancement. 

 

I'd love to know the answer to this because I'm already so many months in and would like to know I;m tackling this plateau correctly.

 

Cheers

 

Ben

the opposite, the more movement you do, plus recovery with an iM, the more you are vascularizing vs. doing an exercise, taking rest between sets and then doing mobility in a separate block composing your WOD. to what degree, you got me there, I honestly don't know.  I feel a big difference in performance in say, linking exercises in a Giant set than working them in a single block (PE + iM). why? I tried seeing what a foundation workout would be like composed of giant sets and i found it easier than doing F7. who knows if this has more to do with my level of PE's, which aren't so high. down the road, it'll be interesting to see how it all comes together.

also, experimenting helps. taking a few cycles to really give something a shot and write results down, will help you down the road. i'm currently trying to do Hinge Row Holds for 5x60sec(currently at 4x18sec with perfect depression and retraction) to then retest Hinge Rows because I plateaued at 5x9 to 4x12 jump. I still haven't done it for a 3 month cycle, but after another 2 months, i'll know for sure if this was the right choice for me. as for pushups, i already found my bottleneck and am currently working on it in incline pushups. haven't missed a beat in the week 5 to week 9 cycle...yet

Daniel has commented on working on certain progressions with little rest in-between on another topic and he say's its killer. better master those pushups, hollow body holds, etc. now so it doesnt bite you in the ass when we need to do 5x(x)sec or 5x(x)reps at an F4 progression....i mean, can you imagine how really strong we're getting just crossing over from F1 to F2? I'm excited.

Thanks Keilani

I know what you mean about getting it together now so we have the 'foundation' for later moves. I'm just feeling frustrated as I can't remember the last time I felt so far away from an exercise goal. Especially as these are some of the first movements.

I've tried experimenting with a few things and always write my workouts down for future reference. There's just that part of me that prefers to know I'm going about it the right way. Perhaps I need to refocus my thoughts on he whole journey vs destination side of things. I've certainly begun to improve weaknesses more so than ever before by following foundation.

Cheers

Ben

I've found the whole "journey vs destination" thing gets easier as I've mastered the first few elements.  When you're stuck on the first elements, you don't even feel like you're on a journey -- you feel like you're in your driveway with a flat tire.  Once you really get that tire fixed and you're rolling, it's a lot easier to be content knowing that you're doing what you need to and will get there when you get there.  Plus, it's very obvious that you have made a ton of progress, even if there are still 30 progressions to go before getting a manna.

tex0413 said:

I've found the whole "journey vs destination" thing gets easier as I've mastered the first few elements.  When you're stuck on the first elements, you don't even feel like you're on a journey -- you feel like you're in your driveway with a flat tire.  Once you really get that tire fixed and you're rolling, it's a lot easier to be content knowing that you're doing what you need to and will get there when you get there.  Plus, it's very obvious that you have made a ton of progress, even if there are still 30 progressions to go before getting a manna.

Very nicely stated.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

tex0413 said:

When you're stuck on the first elements, you don't even feel like you're on a journey -- you feel like you're in your driveway with a flat tire.

I can really relate with this. It's fortunate that we have these forums to help support individual trainees through these early elements.

That was a great post, tex.

Thanks Tex. It helps to know others have felt the same way and that it does get better.

Cheers

Ben