KISS

To everyone having issues with gymnastic bodies, you're overthinking it. The videos show you how it's supposed to be done. Don't make things harder than they need to be because you're unnecessarily stressing yourself and overanalyzing minutae. Start slow and start simple.

If you can't do the movement for the amount of time expected nor with the form necessary or the reps required then keep building up to it, because you're not there yet. Respect the process. If you don't think you're doing it right, you probably aren't. If it hurts or is uncomfortable you're not doing it right or you may have some injury prehab that is a prerequisite to trying the move you're working on.

I hate to sound like a dick, but every day I get comment updates asking the same questions in my email requesting the same basic questions. How do I do this or that, is it an 80 degree or do I pronate my arm to maximum. Stop. Just do the move as best you can and sit tight. Be patient. This gymnastic stuff is something the Coach has been doing for decades, furthermore the kids in the video have been doing it for almost a decade entirely. I started three months ago, I'm not able to do a Front Lever. I don't expect to, not yet. So don't expect me to post about how long it takes or whether I should substitute this for that. There is no magic bullet. My mobility is getting better and my tendons are getting stronger but it's monthly leaps and bounds, not daily. Doing the moves themselves will shore up imbalances, doing extra work helps but isn't called for or obligatory. Think about this when you're posting on all of the specificities of the moves. K.I.S.S.

I appreciate the sentiment, and to a degree you're correct. But it's far too simplistic, sometimes people bury themselves in pointless details, but just as often additional information is required. If what you are saying were absolutely true then there would be no role for experienced coaches. I don't have access to experienced coaches on a daily basis, but I've certainly learned a lot of important details through the forum that I didn't figure out by myself (in addition to everything else I've had to figure out through stubborn repetition).

Stick around for a few more months, spend a bit more time here and I'm sure you'll find a balance. 

Heh. You think *you* get a lot of the same questions posted to you every day?

Thinking, questioning, and analysing are only negatives when they get in the way of attempting and self-correcting based on performance feedback and/or advice on form checks here. Personally I like to ponder on a new element for a little while. I approach this whole thing as a puzzle-- where are the important points? How does this fit in big picture? What have I learnt prior that ties into this, or what is this leading up to that has points I should be implementing now? Thinking vs. Overthinking, I guess.

That said, details like timing the rotation in dislocates changed my technique subtly but profoundly-- I went from 12kg to 20 in a few weeks. Maybe I would've gotten that myself with enough trial and error, but someone asking what I (must admit) thought was kind of a simplistic question at the time gave me the cue I needed to make significant improvement.

A balance

Good questions usually come from the experiences involved with taking action.  As a beginner I had (and still do have) the urge to ponder something and ask theoretical questions that would either be answered or at least clarified by trying something to see what happens.  

Lately I've been making an effort to do a movement, exercise, or whatever with my question in mind to see if I can answer it myself, or rather if the doing of it will answer the question for me.  More often than not I still have a question, but it's usually more specific, concrete, and easier for someone with expertise to answer.   

Do/Try -> Think of Question -> Do/Try with Question in Mind -> Get Answer from Effort or have Better Question to Ask Someone Who Knows

 You could always disable the updates. Of course you don't want to over analyze things but as Albert Einstein said, "everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler". If you are still in F1 chances are much of this stuff is pretty new to you. There are many nuances to even the simplest of movements and if people don't ask questions they won't discover them. Most of us aren't even knowledgeable on a lot of these things. A planche lean to us just looks like a leaning plank. We can hardly tell the differences in muscle activation just from looking. Looks can be deceiving. 

When it comes to learning new concepts, especially those of a foreign world (gymnastics), it's hard to properly visualize and translate information in a way that you can associate it to what you already know which is how learning and understanding are built. Yes many of these questions may sound obvious or perhaps have been asked before, but people may still have a difficult time associating that information. Maybe their question is relatively the same but somewhat different and they need it worded differently or clarified to gain a proper understanding.

I think asking questions (the right ones of course) shows a character trait that is far more impressive than intelligence. It shows humility. It takes humility to say you do not know as much as the next man and are willing to learn .

This is off topic now but there's a famous story of Sam Walton, the man who founded Walmart. He got a letter from a Brazililan small business owner asking for guidance. Sam Walton actually personally met up with him in Brazil to seemingly help him out. The truth was however, that Sam Walton, one of the most successful and richest people in the world went over there not to help him out, but to help HIMSELF out. He was on the floor measuring the Brazilian man's store aisles to see if he knew something that he didn't. That is humility and that is why he was so successful. He showed a willingness to learn from other people and never assumed he knew more than them. Abraham Lincoln said that he "learnt something from everyone he met". 

So you have to show a willingness to learn. You can't merely assume by watching a video you know exactly how it should be done. If that were the case I would have "passed" SL/PE1 a year ago. People also say you learn from your mistakes, however, without correction you will never have known what mistakes you have made and be able to learn from them. Sometimes by asking questions you don't even have to make the mistakes to learn from them. You can learn from other people's mistakes. Also I bet there are always a lot more people wondering the same things but it's always just that one guy that gets up and asks the question opening himself to ridicule, criticism and embarrassment. 

Daniel Taylor-Shaut said:

To everyone having issues with gymnastic bodies, you're overthinking it. The videos show you how it's supposed to be done. Don't make things harder than they need to be because you're unnecessarily stressing yourself and overanalyzing minutae. Start slow and start simple.

If you can't do the movement for the amount of time expected nor with the form necessary or the reps required then keep building up to it, because you're not there yet. Respect the process. If you don't think you're doing it right, you probably aren't. If it hurts or is uncomfortable you're not doing it right or you may have some injury prehab that is a prerequisite to trying the move you're working on.

I hate to sound like a dick, but every day I get comment updates asking the same questions in my email requesting the same basic questions. How do I do this or that, is it an 80 degree or do I pronate my arm to maximum. Stop. Just do the move as best you can and sit tight. Be patient. This gymnastic stuff is something the Coach has been doing for decades, furthermore the kids in the video have been doing it for almost a decade entirely. I started three months ago, I'm not able to do a Front Lever. I don't expect to, not yet. So don't expect me to post about how long it takes or whether I should substitute this for that. There is no magic bullet. My mobility is getting better and my tendons are getting stronger but it's monthly leaps and bounds, not daily. Doing the moves themselves will shore up imbalances, doing extra work helps but isn't called for or obligatory. Think about this when you're posting on all of the specificities of the moves. K.I.S.S.

I 100% absolutely disagree with this to the point that it makes me mad.  I'm only going to say that I believe the more analysis the better, and leave it at that.  If you disagree with that, don't tell others (such as myself) to not do the same - because I actually do enjoy the analysis.  If you don't like over-analyzing, then that should be your personal choice of how "much" you believe should be enough.

alan tseng said:

I 100% absolutely disagree with this to the point that it makes me mad.

I believe this can be settled with a HS battle...if not, then all is for naught.

TANSTAAFL said:

I believe this can be settled with a HS battle...if not, then all is for naught.

Most things can, and more things should be

TANSTAAFL said:

I believe this can be settled with a HS battle...if not, then all is for naught.

Isn't that the essential basis behind capoeira?

Well my point wasnt to make people angry so perhaps my meaning got lost in the message. All I mean to say is that sometimes overthinking it and overanalyzing each step can be counterproductive. To end up not asking questions wasn't my intended aim by the post, rather that people should try to recognize more and appreciate the fact that all the facets of each exercise can frequently be revealed simply through exercise and aren't going to be mastered in one go. Play with the movements see what works and what doesn't. See what feels good and what doesn't. The more responses I read, however, the more I feel that maybe that's more subjective than I had realized, so perhaps I'll just delete this thread and fall back into the silent GB member majority.

Though a HS battle could suffice, kamehameha lol

In my opinion, I enjoy seeing people do the analysis. This is a forum after all where the whole point is for a community to discuss things. I personally don't see why if people that do want to get in a more "in-depth" analysis, should be discouraged. Yes, at the end of the day, you still need to go out and do it, however sometimes it's not just as simple as copying exactly what it is on the video if someone who is new doesn't know what to look for. Even sometimes when people just "does" it, they can still miss a lot of things. If no one missed anything, there wouldn't be a need for form checks and everyone would get it all perfect in a seminar

I believe Daniel is correct, at least in basic theory.  Keeping it simple is definitely the way to go.  There are, obviously, questions that will arise and are not clear from the videos, and those are good questions to ask.  however, i see too many people asking questions and pursuing the same exercise month after month after month because of some minute detail.  Sometimes you should just accept that you're doing the exercise well, and are unlikely to keep making progress if you stay on the same PE.  Milk each PE/SE for what it's worth, and then move on when you are no longer getting benefit from it.  

No need to get angry, either, at somebody trying to help others see the simplicity to the program.  I admire Daniel putting his thoughts out there knowing it would be seen by some as heretical.   I don't mind people asking questions, though it gets old seeing the same question asked in 10 different threads, but that's the nature of the forum business. Just ignore the questions you don't feel like answering and let somebody else do the answering.  Happy weekend, everyone.  Cheers.

MT Nordic said:

No need to get angry, either, at somebody trying to help others see the simplicity to the program.  I admire Daniel putting his thoughts out there knowing it would be seen by some as heretical.   I don't mind people asking questions, though it gets old seeing the same question asked in 10 different threads, but that's the nature of the forum business. Just ignore the questions you don't feel like answering and let somebody else do the answering.  Happy weekend, everyone.  Cheers.

I got angry when I read this. Happy weekend...jeez, you've been bumped up my list for HS battles.

Meta

Jon Douglas said:

That said, details like timing the rotation in dislocates changed my technique subtly but profoundly-- I went from 12kg to 20 in a few weeks. Maybe I would've gotten that myself with enough trial and error, but someone asking what I (must admit) thought was kind of a simplistic question at the time gave me the cue I needed to make significant improvement.

A balance

Hey Jon. What tip are you referring to re dislocates?

no need to delete the thread my man, Coach Sommer is first on the list of Likes for your comment, and thats the only opinion you need to be worried about.