Korean dips. The bane of my existence.

I've been stuck on overgrip Korean dips for months now.  I should note that I cannot do one actual korean dip, rather I've been spinning my wheels performing these with a backstop for the feet.  Essentially, I picked up this method of progression from the forum here where one simply places a backstop behind the bar that one's feet meet upon descent.  As strength increases, the backstop is moved further and further back until you are actually not hitting it upon descent and are performing full Korean dips.  

Sounded like a solid strategy, but for me, this is the one exercise where I am lacking any consistency whatsoever.  One week I'll be performing 4x3 reps without any issue and then the next week, where I should be performing 5x3 at the same backstop-depth, I might not be able to perform one single set of 3 reps.  I've read through the few korean dip-posts I could find and have been trying to implement the points of emphasis recommended, but I'm not sure they're helping or perhaps I should be working this exercise in a completely different manner.

Currently, my focus with each rep is:

-head up, looking at where ceiling meets the wall

-resist arching of the back

-upon descent, retract scapula intensely and attempt to keep elbows "back"

-during descent, working to keep forearms "stacked" over wrists

-upon ascent, attempt to push hips forward while arcing back with head and shoulders pulled back

-drive the rep hard on the positive, ascent portion of the rep

I've got all of this going on in my head and half the time I end up all the way at the top, but just don't have enough to pull myself back to starting position and instead end up just falling forward off of the bar.

Any suggestions on what I should be doing differently?  And "not thinking so much" has also been attempted - I've tried just clearing my head and jumping right into the reps.  No luck there either.

This exercise is literally driving me insane. 

Keep your hips pushed forward as you press back up to the top position.

That is indeed a lot of thinking! What worked for me was not worrying about the form at first, but going with the swing - just go with the flow. Although it seems as though you will hit the bar, somehow the body works out how to clear it. Not very scientific and factual I'm afraid.

Just forget about form, that will come later.

I wonder if your backstop is killing your momentum too much - I need to have a good swing through the back to allow me to clear the bar on the return swing. Its a deceptively subtle advantage to the movement when done slowly but for me it's critical. Also you say that you are resisting arching of the back on the way down? You'll need a little arch to help put your legs (therefore your centre of gravity) further under the bar as you move. When I was working through this PE I too read a lot of posts about how straight the back is supposed to be and could never quite fit that with either my own experience or the course video, and as we know the video is king. 

Finally I don't know what your pbar equipment is like but mine is pure homemade bodge and it took a bit of extra stabilisation to allow me to be confident in sliding off the bar and swinging under it. Any wobbles in your kit are going to really mess with your timing and with your head!

Strength-wise, Korean Dips aren't much harder than Undergrip Single Bar Dips.  If you have 5x5r mastery of PE8, you should have plenty of strength for PE9.

Get rid of the backstop.  Go with the swing.  As you come up, push your hips forward and your torso back and up (not just up).

Don't let these drive you insane.  They're actually a lot of fun once you get it.

Great replies guys, thanks. My dipping strength has always been pretty good, as I could do sets of 5 on pb's with 100+ lbs around my waist. Just getting up and back over the bar has been just impossible for me with Korean dips. Though I'm going to go ahead and take the suggestion and remove the back stop and see how that goes. My set up is also homemade, but is quite stable and situated inside a squat/power rack.

I'll see how it goes and report back.

Why didn't you say that?  Take the 100+ lbs off!

I think the backstop is counterproductive because you'll never get the flow of the movement using it.

I'm also a desperate case with these and found the best thing was to use a band anchored in front, as you go down the band gives some support, but it also pulls you forward enough so setting up is no problem, but it allows you to feel the timing of the movement.

Haha!! If it were only that easy! Ah, the difficulty of working a movement in more than one simple confined plane of motion....

I always thought of these as pretty easy, particularly compared to exercises like hbp/pe3. You must be missing the rhythm in some way...

Ravn said:

I always thought of these as pretty easy, particularly compared to exercises like hbp/pe3. You must be missing the rhythm in some way...

I agree. Although the movement is kinda weird to begin with, once you understand whats happening it should be no problem to bang out mastery sets.

Btw you need to arch the back to keep the body curved or your centre of gravity is off.

My tip is do a negative and hold the bottom position. Then work on controlling the swing to your advantage. Then add 100lbs

I've seen this mentioned in other threads, that this movement has a lot to do with getting used to the technique vs pure strength. I also see some members here having some fun with my 100 lbs dipping comment, which I'm quite enjoying. I was attempting to convey that this wasn't a strength issue, I'm my mind, vs more of trying to figure out what I was doing wrong with the technique. Still, I can't be the only one here who has found the gb iterations of various exercises to appear to be so similar to the standard exercise but actually be infinitely harder. Example - like many here I could previously perform chin ups with a lot of weight around my waist (definitely not specifying load for fear of further ridicule , but am currently working hard at L chin ups trying to get 5x3 with good form, each rep from dead hang without legs sagging.

Though, for me anyway, Korean dips has been crazy difficult to solve. Tomorrow I'll attempt these with some suggestions implemented, hopefully I'll make some improvement.

One last piece of advice:  Get a spotter to stand behind and off to the side with the instruction to keep you from falling backward.  When I first started these, I was trying to do them too slow and controlled for fear of falling backward.  When I finally "went for it" I discovered they weren't that hard and I wasn't even close to falling backward.

Good luck!

I am inconsistent as well. I am trying to do these more often as it feels as much as a skill as strength.

I have noticed how much stronger my pressing has become since starting these. My Planche push ups have really benefited from these.

I did these near a wall (backstop) until I gained the strength and confidence that I was unlikely to strain a shoulder.

Moving to supinated grip was interestingly challenging again.

I mastered both. I typically now do a few as part of my warmup. They  don't seem difficult anymore.

I think that these would be substantially more challenging if one weren't allowed to contact the bar at all at the top of the movement.

Todd said:

 

I think that these would be substantially more challenging if one weren't allowed to contact the bar at all at the top of the movement.

Don't give coach any ideas!  

Ok, I removed the back stop today, got on the bar, quickly went over some mental cues, and performed 2 full range reps. I was stunned. I then did four more sets of: 5,4,5,5 reps. I was thrilled, while at the same time incredibly annoyed with myself for not asking for help sooner.

Moral of the story here for me is to get more active on the forums and not to spin my wheels on an exercise for MONTHS without looking for some pointers from those who have succeeded at said exercise.

Also, a public service announcement to those working Korean dips using a back stop restricting the full ROM with the thought that it is a solution for progressing when, initially, full ROM reps are too difficult ---- GET RID OF THE BACK STOP.

Thanks again guys for your help.

Congratulations!

Nice! Don't sweat the time lost - it means nothing in the long run. This time next year you'll barely remember you had an issue...

Thanks guys, much appreciated

killroy70 said:

Ok, I removed the back stop today, got on the bar, quickly went over some mental cues, and performed 2 full range reps. I was stunned. I then did four more sets of: 5,4,5,5 reps. I was thrilled, while at the same time incredibly annoyed with myself for not asking for help sooner.

Moral of the story here for me is to get more active on the forums and not to spin my wheels on an exercise for MONTHS without looking for some pointers from those who have succeeded at said exercise.

Also, a public service announcement to those working Korean dips using a back stop restricting the full ROM with the thought that it is a solution for progressing when, initially, full ROM reps are too difficult ---- GET RID OF THE BACK STOP.

Thanks again guys for your help.

Well done! Well earned.

Make sure you warm up with em, the last thingyyou want is to lose the technique now

I just did these and found as I come up I focus on pushing my hands down and forwards. This really helped get the shoulders back and the buttocks over the bar.

killroy70 said:

Ok, I removed the back stop today, got on the bar, quickly went over some mental cues, and performed 2 full range reps. I was stunned. I then did four more sets of: 5,4,5,5 reps. I was thrilled, while at the same time incredibly annoyed with myself for not asking for help sooner.

Moral of the story here for me is to get more active on the forums and not to spin my wheels on an exercise for MONTHS without looking for some pointers from those who have succeeded at said exercise.

Thanks again guys for your help.

And thanks for starting this thread as these tips really helped me a lot.

Got 5x5 today.

Underhand grip next time. Then bring on the Russians.

Nice that you all could work it out
I just mastered Korean Dips and will test now the undergrip version.

I just want to share my experience with Korean Dips in general.

First attempts has been pretty hard to get buttocks over the bar, but then i figured it out:

While swinging back i just straighten my lower back and legs completely and i got a really fine movement then. Before i just tried to keep my back slightly arched the whole rom, but after finding out this detail the movement was much more fluid

Not just more momentum, but it s easier to generate power from a solid body as form an arched one.

Hope that helps.

Nice! And just to add my experience - I did them on proper parallel bars today rather than a supported barbell, and it was like going back to the beginning again    So my tip would be to get them done on PB from the start.