deck squats , how far back should I roll?

Could anyone please explain how far back should I roll? should the back of my head touch the floor at the end of the motion? I've watched the demo video in F1 multiple times but it's not clear from the video whether the head should touch the floor when you roll back.

Thanks in advance

Roll back as far as you need to generate enough forward momentum to firmly plant your feet on the ground to stand up.

The deck squat is just a portion of a forward roll.

I try to avoid the head/neck too much as I start to try and use it to help me with momentum when I fatigue. Not a huge issue, but just something to think about.

I find that you roll back the right amount if you focus on bringing the legs/knees in close to the bottom on the down roll.  It also keeps the movement "clean" and helps get the feet to plant underneath you when it's time to stand up.

thank you guys! I think I'll try to roll back as little as possible as I think it will decrease the momentum and consequently will make the movement harder. I have no trouble at all performing the movement so now I'm trying to clean up the technique. of course the corresponding im is quite another matter:)

I really struggle with this movement yet, wrongly or rightly, feel like I should have enough strength to perform it. I tend to stumble backwards during the pressing portion.

BlueLion said:

I really struggle with this movement yet, wrongly or rightly, feel like I should have enough strength to perform it. I tend to stumble backwards during the pressing portion.

You are lucky. If you can get that far you are close to having the required mobility.

BlueLion said:

I really struggle with this movement yet, wrongly or rightly, feel like I should have enough strength to perform it. I tend to stumble backwards during the pressing portion.

Your inability to perform them may not have to do with a lack of strength but perhaps a lack of mobility or inefficient technique while performing them.

Can you comfortable sit in a full butt to ankles squat, barefoot/socks only, with the insides of your feet touching and knees touching, and using no weight for counterbalance? If not, then you lack mobility.

If you can and still have trouble then it could be that your technique is off and you are not maintaining PPT or good compression during the roll and this are wasting energy/momentum that should be helping you to get back to your feet.

Post a form check video and people should be able to help you.

Keegan said:

Your inability to perform them may not have to do with a lack of strength but perhaps a lack of mobility or inefficient technique while performing them.

Can you comfortable sit in a full butt to ankles squat, barefoot/socks only, with the insides of your feet touching and knees touching, and using no weight for counterbalance? If not, then you lack mobility.

If you can and still have trouble then it could be that your technique is off and you are not maintaining PPT or good compression during the roll and this are wasting energy/momentum that should be helping you to get back to your feet.

Post a form check video and people should be able to help you.

If I get into the position you describe in this post I fall backwards on to my bum. If I stick my arms out in front I can hold it but my back is rounded (not sure if that's an issue or not). I find during the roll, if I use a bit more momentum so that my upper body is brought forwards more the movement is easy.

The back will have to round some in that position, but the fact that you fall backwards from there suggests that you lack ankle mobility and thus your knees cannot track forwards over your toes sufficiently to allow your center of gravity to stay over your feet. I would definitely put some time and effort into improving your ankle mobility and see if that doesn't make the exercise easier for you.

From my understanding deck squats are at least somewhat dependent on momentum for their execution (though there are varying degrees of momentum and obviously the less used the more strict the movement), so using some is fine (though I was admit that I am not a GB athlete or coach, so take that with a grain of salt).

When I first started doing them I had to really swing my arms and would even then miss reps. But as I have continued to work on them, identified and addressed my mobility deficits and improved my effeciency and understanding of the correct technique involved my Deck squats have become smooth, strict, and I very, very rarely miss a rep (sometimes you just lose concentration at just the wrong time).

Hope this helps.

Keegan said:

The back will have to round some in that position, but the fact that you fall backwards from there suggests that you lack ankle mobility and thus your knees cannot track forwards over your toes sufficiently to allow your center of gravity to stay over your feet. I would definitely put some time and effort into improving your ankle mobility and see if that doesn't make the exercise easier for you.

From my understanding deck squats are at least somewhat dependent on momentum for their execution (though there are varying degrees of momentum and obviously the less used the more strict the movement), so using some is fine (though I was admit that I am not a GB athlete or coach, so take that with a grain of salt).

When I first started doing them I had to really swing my arms and would even then miss reps. But as I have continued to work on them, identified and addressed my mobility deficits and improved my effeciency and understanding of the correct technique involved my Deck squats have become smooth, strict, and I very, very rarely miss a rep (sometimes you just lose concentration at just the wrong time).

Hope this helps.

Thanks very much Keegan for taking your time to offer a very conclusive reply. Ankle mobility sounds very much like the culprit. I will integrate ankle mobility into my supporting work.

Couldn't it also be a hip flexion issue? As opposed to ankle mobility? Or am I thinking about it the wrong way....?

Wait, do you need to have feet flat in order to do the butt-ankle squat? I can hold that position but my heels come off the ground a bit. In the liner notes it doesn't mention it. Furthermore in SLS/PE2 and PE3 the athlete's heel comes off the ground a bit, as well. 

I'm pretty sure your goal for all squats is whole foot on the ground.  including heel.

vinca_minor said:

I'm pretty sure your goal for all squats is whole foot on the ground.  including heel.

Can we get an official verdict on that?

I know I read on a SLS PE2 topic somewhere that a slight heel lift like in the  course video is what is expected to claim mastery.  

That being said any lifting of the heel is a compensation for a lack of ankle flexion.  And then you also have to ask your self is my heel lift "slight" enough?  And are you lifting your heel the same "slight" amount from one side to the other.  I prefer to do a few of my sets with heel on the ground to keep myself honest and have an objective measuring stick comparing one side to the other.  A heel on the ground SLS PE2 is like a long term objective like a body weight Jefferson curl.

If you can sit comfortably in a full squat, with a little momentum and understanding of the technique, you should be able to do it. If you can't sit in a full squat with knees close to your torso, feet flat under your butt, you will not. Try the stretching techniques for the aquiles and calf in FS series or juts try hanging around in a squat position for a few minutes every day. 

As Keegan and others have said, you need some momentum for this exercise. The exact amount will vary I guess on many factors, from flexibility to length of legs and what not. Proper technique helps a lot. Once you understand how it works it becomes easier. Try deconstructing it by going in reverse slowly. Maybe that will help.

Thanks Zach.  Ok no more heel lifting. Good to know.

So, for final verdict. For all SLS progressions, heel HAS to be down for mastery and shoes/socks need to be off? Lol. Just to be clear. I'm very concrete. Ambiguity doesn't serve me well. 

Zach has been helped me a lot in this movement. I usually perform barefoot. I spend a few minutes with feet under butt narrow as I can, butt to calves with a wt held out front for balance and to loosen up ankle flexibility (prior sprained ankle makes squatting a chore now). After which I test if I can sit without the weight. when I'm able I know I'm good to go. Front split stretch series as been helping as well.

Been working on this since last summer and I've finally been able to get off the ground with good form. I worked on a plateform, then weight on the ground for a bit, then no weight but focused on another tip Jon Douglas/alex87 recently made which was slow roll back with knees held to chess as close as I can during the roll and heels (or calves depending on how you want to look at it) pressed tightly in as well. Popped right up on my own barely trying. Caught me off guard cause I had no expectation of success on first try. I think last of compression was playing a part of the problem. 

In terms of the roll back I find when focusing on the knee compression, staying tightly curled (kinda like the hollow rock I guess) and heels in I don't roll as much back as I did when I was flopping around learning this one at the beginning. As I tire though things get more sloppy, loose and I catch myself almost rolling completely backwards over my head at times.  Comical actually. That's usually when I call it quits and finish off remaining sets of iM.