Jefferson Curl

Coach Sommer said:

Difficult to quantify time wise as it varies from person to person, however as a general rule there should be an underload period of at least several weeks were the load feels 'too easy'.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

However it feels like in Foundation's strength elements it feels like it's in constant overload and barely any of the "under load period of at least several weeks" that you mentioned.

Yes, I understand it's apples and oranges where rules for strength and mobility are different, but shouldn't the body also feel like the load in a strength element feel "easy"?

There was a recent topic, where Coach stated that SSC was used for warm up elements for his elite athletes

 

EDIT: found it.

 

- SSC is a methodology that I primarily used with some of my advanced athletes' warmup elements. You will also see that Jon Douglas here on the F1 private forum has had a lot of success implementing this protocol into his own warmups. Remember also that Jon is a L1.5 Certified GB athlete.

- At your guys level, you need to take care of first things first and that means getting Foundation mastered and out of the way. The primary point that I want you to take away from the podcast SSC discussion is that it is essential to give the connective tissue time to adapt. And that is what the Foundation programming is designed to do for you.

Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer

We're not talking about SSC in these mobility elements though. Even in the post you quoted, Coach says regardless of whatever programming you use, you need to give connective tissues time to adapt. Coach says in that post that Foundation programming gives tissue time to adapt, however I don't see a period of "several weeks of underload."

Because when you jump from, say, RC/PE1 to PE2, you don't really need that much connective tissue adaptation. You get some, your muscles adapt, you get endurance, etc. By going from RC/PE1 to RC/PE6, you have plenty of time to adapt from various perspectives. By the time you get to the SEs (when you start touching the rope basically), your connective tissue will be well-adapted.

Same goes for all other elements. There may not be several weeks of underload on each element, but that's because you don't need that on these elements according to Coach.

I agree with you in that RC/PE1 to PE2 is not as big a jump as the more advanced elements that does require SSC programming and doesn't require as much tissue adaptation.  However, RC/PE1 to RC/PE2 is still an overload, and RC/PE1 to RC/PE6 would be several months to a year of no significant underload periods

alan tseng said:

I agree with you in that RC/PE1 to PE2 is not as big a jump as the more advanced elements that does require SSC programming and doesn't require as much tissue adaptation.  However, RC/PE1 to RC/PE2 is still an overload, and RC/PE1 to RC/PE6 would be several months to a year of no significant underload periods

 

Are you skipping the deload weeks?

Daniel Burnham said:

Are you skipping the deload weeks?

Deload week is just one week of underload whereas Coach is referring to several weeks of underload periods at a time

alan tseng said:

Deload week is just one week of underload whereas Coach is referring to several weeks of underload periods at a time

My point is that there is deload, just not as much.  Like you said the strength and mobility drills should be approached differently.  Strength at this stage can be approached in a more linear manner.  As you get more advanced you will also likely need more deload on the strength elements.  Especially the straight arm elements which may require a SSC style schedule.

@alan tseng: I think you are getting confused with two different types of programming. That overload, load and underload principle was set out for those particular IM's. The hamstring work on the SLS is the same (although i actually feel these are really strength components and suit a linear program). disclocates are more like it also.

Jefferson curls are the 'END' movement, We just want to get really strong in THAT particular movement. Hense we want to add resistance to THAT movement at a load that we can lift somewhat comfortably but is also abit challenging at the initial stages but not too challenging that it is almost impossible to complete the movement or that gives us horrible and unwanted movement compensations (like bending the knees cos the weight is to much or fighting being pulled off the step/bench/riser all together!). This is why we scale the intensity to the movement and then ride that intensity out which allows for the conditioning factor.

Now, if i was to do the same with a variation of an SLS, it wouldn't benefit me much because if i could already do 5 x 5 reps of an SLS...I would not increase my strength level on this variation UNLESS i just added weight. maybe then i could apply the same training principle.

the reason the rest of the SE and PE elements are linear is because when we progress onto a new variation, we can hardly perform two reps of it....so it starts 3 x 1, 5 x 1 etc etc so that we build strength to perform an adequate amount of the movement.

it's also important to remember that the variations in F1,2,3,4 are progressively training you to reach an end goal (front lever, planche, side lever, rope climb, hollow back press, manna and single leg squat). Once your strength has reached these levels...most of the variations you will never use again (unless for a warm up or injury rehab).

Once you can do 5 x 30s planche hold...you could change you programming to 5 x 30 second planche hold and ride that cycle for 3 months at which point you will have taken that progression through a substantial overload, load and underload cycle.

it's not the same as a 5x5 squat program either because it's impossible to drop a variation to 60% of that variation!......which is another reason why it's 3 x 1.

 

hope that makes sense though

 

Steady state is brilliant in its simplicity. Fewest moving parts, very hard to mess up, and protects you from your own ambitions whilst still supporting large jumps forward on the next cycle.

Str elements don't need to be treated in the same way, at least until you are high enough level that that your strength elements are strongly dependent on your connective tissue (rings etc). Plus the mechanics are such that mobility elements *do not change* with increasing load, whilst strength progressions do.

By thay i mean anyone can jump on a box, start curling down with full bodyweight, and rapidly hurt themselves. Someone else may begin at a couple kilos and work their way up without issue, and their performance of the movement will not change. Anyone can access the full load on these.

Compare that to, say, developing a full bodyweight overhead press. In gst terms, thats a full HSPU (lets save the quibbling about carryover etc for another thread please). Coach outlines in BtGB first box hespu, hespu, and then gradually elevating it as the body adapts. The movement is not the same-- a beginner is not put in a position where they can potentially hurt themselves until they are strong enough to demonstrate, not just think, that they can handle it.

Strength training in the F series is very safe, all things being equal, for this reason. On mobility work, particularly weighted work, even more particularly when you are dealing with a movement like this which I imagine sends alarm bells up a whole lot of flag poles, the onus is on the trainee because-- as we've covered-- the movement is exactly the same whether you are using 1 or 100kg. Coach is giving you all the info you could reasonably ask for without sitting you down and doing your calculations, perceived level of effort, and monitoring your training and the impact thereon for a period of weeks before adjusting thr load/volume. This is what he would do with his personal and competitive athletes-- that's after all what you pay a high level professional coach for.

Take it cautious, because most of us do not have access to a high level coach and competitive training facilities build slow, test, get bored with that weight, re test. Gain and become ridiculously durable-- just don't rush to get there because you are in a position to hurt yourself if you do what you frankly already know is dumb and use as much weight as you can

Please excuse my long windedness

Beautifully stated, Jon.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Update: Trying to recover my ROM after my hamstring injury, That's the deepest I can go without pain. 

 

Hi all,

 

I'm curious if this exercise has any transference to Press HS work due to its back curling motion.

 

Thanks in advance.

Hissatsu said:

Hi all,

 

I'm curious if this exercise has any transference to Press HS work due to its back curling motion.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

No.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer