Adding some of the later - PEs

Hi, I've mentioned a few times about how I find the headstands very painful to hold for the full 60 seconds and feel it could be a very long time before I move on from them.

So would it be okay to add some of the later progressions so that I actually get something that feels like a workout from handstand 1.

Because at the moment I enjoy the wrist part of it but find the headstand to do little but hurt my neck and head and I'm not really sure I'm getting much out of them.

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To be clear I would carry on doing the headstands until I reached mastery but just add some of the later movements in as I'm fine with the shoulder mobility so I feel I could benefit from them.

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Also I haven't really seen a clear answer to what the point is in doing the headstands, are they for strengthening the neck (if so why) opening up the shoulders (if so how) or just getting used to being upside and for balance?

Since I started doing H1 on its own day I've been working on 2 progressions at a time. I started with PE1/2 and now working on 3/4. I'd advise not going too far though only because you start to require things that you're meant to achieve in the early progressions.

I like to do a few sets of chest to wall handstands at the end of my session as well.

Murray Truelove said:

Since I started doing H1 on its own day I've been working on 2 progressions at a time. I started with PE1/2 and now working on 3/4. I'd advise not going too far though only because you start to require things that you're meant to achieve in the early progressions.

I like to do a few sets of chest to wall handstands at the end of my session as well.

Thanks for the reply I might start doing that, do you prefer working H1 on it's own day?

At the moment I do a 4 day split and it sort of feels like I just tag H1 on the end of the real workout (F1)

(PS - hope it's okay that I copied your template for the signature, just had to scoot all the numbers down haha)

Alex Tansel said:

Thanks for the reply I might start doing that, do you prefer working H1 on it's own day?

At the moment I do a 4 day split and it sort of feels like I just tag H1 on the end of the real workout (F1)

(PS - hope it's okay that I copied your template for the signature, just had to scoot all the numbers down haha)

I prefer it on its own day and try to treat it like active recovery but it does mean I'm busy 6 nights a week which isn't suitable for everyone. I also spend a couple of minutes between each set stretching (that is heavy PNF/ loaded stretching) so it's sort of a H1+flexibility day, this has really accelerated my F work which is currently being held back by mobility (I'm looking at you MN:PE2!)

I originally did it before Fb days but felt like I was rushing through it and it was making Fb days take too long. How you schedule depends a lot on your available free time and how you recover.

I should say I only do F three times a week, a-b-a one week, b-a-b the next, eventually this will be F(7) as the elements progress towards 5x5r and I don't have to do so much extra work for my mobility.

My schedule looks like:

Mon: climbing

Tue: H1

Wed: Fa (Fb the following week)

Thu: -rest-

Fri: H1

Sat: Fa

Sun: Fb

Hope that's of some help.

No worries about the signature, I copied it from someone else myself.

Alex Tansel said:

Also I haven't really seen a clear answer to what the point is in doing the headstands, are they for strengthening the neck (if so why) opening up the shoulders (if so how) or just getting used to being upside and for balance?

Mainly for the upside down and balance/body awareness part.  When I first got to the 5x60s PE2, I was surprised to literally feel the blood draining from my legs.  By the time I got to 5x60s PE3 I didn't experience this anymore.

I found PE3 to open up my shoulders (probably more like lats/triceps) too.

Please post a video of your headstand.  They really shouldn't hurt your neck or head (assuming you're on a somewhat soft surface).  Pain is bad -- muscular discomfort is OK.

tex0413 said:

Mainly for the upside down and balance/body awareness part. When I first got to the 5x60s PE2, I was surprised to literally feel the blood draining from my legs. By the time I got to 5x60s PE3 I didn't experience this anymore.

I found PE3 to open up my shoulders (probably more like lats/triceps) too

Also to get used to keeping the body "tight", with hollow body and open hips (no pike). It can be difficult to get the right muscle activation upside down with no external support to the body. If you get this in headstand, you don't have to think about it as much when you get into handstands.

Murray Truelove said:

Since I started doing H1 on its own day I've been working on 2 progressions at a time. I started with PE1/2 and now working on 3/4. I'd advise not going too far though only because you start to require things that you're meant to achieve in the early progressions.

I like to do a few sets of chest to wall handstands at the end of my session as well.

I'm considering this approach - currently doing HS 3 times a week on separate days.

manze said:

I'm considering this approach - currently doing HS 3 times a week on separate days.

Would be good to hear how you get on.

Murray Truelove said:

Would be good to hear how you get on.

However! I just read that the H2/PE's can be added immediately along with H1 work - I think that'll be my way to go instead. 

This forum is a gold mine.

manze said:

However! I just read that the H2/PE's can be added immediately along with H1 work - I think that'll be my way to go instead.

This forum is a gold mine.

It can, though it's recommended that you've finished F2 first (or finished F1, I can't quite remember) so you have the necessary pike flexibility and shoulder strength. I had a go at incorporating H2 but didn't feel like I was ready for it.

Murray Truelove said:

It can, though it's recommended that you've finished F2 first (or finished F1, I can't quite remember) so you have the necessary pike flexibility and shoulder strength. I had a go at incorporating H2 but didn't feel like I was ready for it.

Ah okay. I'll try working on two PE's and see how it goes. I am however also aiming for 3x F7 - by then the double PE's might be too ambitious.

Alex Tansel said:

Hi, I've mentioned a few times about how I find the headstands very painful to hold for the full 60 seconds and feel it could be a very long time before I move on from them.

I had the same issue, at the beginning of PE1 and when I got to the last cycle of PE2.

What I did I back up to the very first week of PE2, started to do stretches for the neck and went to see a chiropractor.

To make the story short I had pain because of my desk work and my neck and shoulders were impinged and the nervous system wasn't working properly.

A couple of month later I've mastered PE2 without any pain, shoulder and neck feel so much better and I see better results in all the F exercises.

Years of desk work can destroy your spine...

Wait till you do hs wall runs 6+ minutes. My feet were far more uncomfortable than my shoulders