Started by Jurre, September 28, 2014 · 51 Replies · 17,885 Views
Another question, I was working on the glide kip. But i'm unsure on what scapula position you should be in.
I had to open my shoulders, but never really done that movement. I think I have to protract (Hollow) so when I completely open my shoulders they are still active.
I couldn't lift my legs while doing it, because I think I over extended in the shoulders.
Really getting used to a lot of arched stuff, in tumbling etc. As I always trained hollow positions.
Anybody have any tips for the 'kip'? I can extend and compress, but have no clue how to 'kip' up.
I'm working this on the parallel bars (so it isn't really a glide kip but a pike kip?, I don't really use the english names due to using the dutch names in the gym.).
For kip on parallel bars, work the basket swing.
Jump to hollow, glide out, pull feet legs and compress, swing back and press down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNUVKrN4ndc
Cheers guys,
Haven't thought about the basket swing, but obviously you pass through it. Should put some attention to that.
Watched the Coach Meggin tutorial before, some good tips which I forgot. Also thanks for that. Bummer I only have access to the gym for 2 hours a week.
Any exercises I can focus on at home (got rings, pull up bar outside and the good ol' floor)?
Pike flexibility and compression. This can be either seated or yoga plow style on your back. Stretch your hamstrings.
Something I didn't want to hear but probably needed to hear. Hate stretching, haaha.
Need to get it into my system!
Thanks, will work on both!
I can't do glide kip at all. It was called float upstart in my country.
My experience is its all about momentum. And I think shoulder strength acquired from front levers can really help.
Yes, shoulder strength helps.
But the basket swing is critical. Pike compression is critical for a good basket swing.
Did not get to practice too much on the glide kip this week, but did notice I did not compress as much as I should, so will work on that this week.
Each week i'll have a different coach and this week I had a coach who coaches the women team, which had us do some gruelling stretching and intense form. Showed us some nice stretches which i'll work on!
Others have already given you YouTube videos - Coach Meggin's is the best!
Can you do a kip? "running" forward and then bringing the legs to the bar? So without the glide? This is a lot easier at first to understand the kip motion and requires less strength. (Can you do leg lifts??)
For the actual glide kip, you can either straddle or pike. Pike is harder, straddle is easier on the stomach.
You start of by practicing 3-5 glides in a row. When you jump to grab the bar, make sure your shoulders are so pushed out and very very tight. Then hold your feet up just a few inches off the floor. DO NOT GLIDE WITH YOUR FEET LIKE 30 INCHES AWAY FROM THE GROUND! Looks silly and makes it harder.
So once you have the glide, you should make sure that at the end of the glide, your body should be in a completely straight position with your shoulders totally open. Then look for the bar, bring the feet to the bar (completely to the bar or just 1 inch away - if you are too far away, you won't make it!) Your feet should be at the bar BEFORE your butt (centre of gravity) swings behind the bar. Because this makes you go back behind the bar instead of up! Also, do not initiate the leg lifts to earlier or you will either land crooked on the bar or won't make it at all.
Common mistakes are:
1. Bending the arms and not opening the shoulders
2. too earlier or too late "toes to bar"
Try those videos to be aware of the mistakes.
Thanks for the response.
I got the ´glide´ part down I think. I open up the shoulders and don´t go too far down and can now quite decently compress.
I don´t think I compress enough though.
I can´t spend too much time on this, as usually my skin tears in my hand.
Will give it a go upcoming thursday and report back.
Yeah PB underbar work is hell on the hands.
Kaitlin, Jurre is working on a PB kip not an UB low rail or HB kip. Somewhat similar, fairly different.
Jurre said:Thanks for the response.
I got the ´glide´ part down I think. I open up the shoulders and don´t go too far down and can now quite decently compress.
I don´t think I compress enough though.
I can´t spend too much time on this, as usually my skin tears in my hand.
Will give it a go upcoming thursday and report back.
Then it might be the timing. Just watch ton of videos. Your feet need to come to the bar before your butt swings behind the again and after a straight body position in the front.
What happens when you try the kip?
Do you kind if push the bar away and land behind the bar? (then your leg lift is too late!)
Do you touch the bar with your thighs or knees and land on tue bar with your tummy? (then you are too early!)
Do you jump before the glide? If not, try it. Gives you more momentum! Do you pike or straddle?
You could also use a stick or something and practice the kip motion of "pulling up your pants"!
A video would be helpful, btw^^
And well....the rips are just part of the game! If you complain about that now: don't even think about learning bigger circling skills!!!!
No, just kidding. But really, use chalk, file those calluses down and use a really fat cream before bed. And if you want to learn more skills than just a kip, get yourself some grips. The earlier, the better! Feels really different than just grabbing tur bar and might be weird at first.
You don't even want to look at my hands after bars...but usually, gymnasts treat them a little like if they were trophies 
So you better get used to it 
I'm actually working on the kip on the Parallel bars.
Not to sure where I get after the kip. But the feet before butt cue is something I will focus on next time.
Will also do a little jump.
I got some good calluses from ring strength training and pull ups etc. But P bars etc. makes me tear on different parts of the hand which aren't very developed yet.
Once I got some stuff on the P bars. I will start working on the high bar and get me some grips indeed.
Thanks for the tips, they are very usefull.
Will report back after my class!
Underbar work is a lot worse than single rail work on the hands.
The Jo boys in the states learn HB kip first then PB kip. I've had a lot of girls who can do a good glide kip be able to do PB kip though.
TBH, I generally teach the boys a low bar kip first with a glide, then a HB kip and then we move on to the PB kip later on (besides working on jams on the low rail). Somewhere in the middle or before these is doing short/drop kips with a spot, with a kip trainer, and spotted basket swing kips.
Sometimes boys will end up in upper arm instead of support when they learn PB kip.
Blairbob said:Underbar work is a lot worse than single rail work on the hands.
The Jo boys in the states learn HB kip first then PB kip. I've had a lot of girls who can do a good glide kip be able to do PB kip though.
TBH, I generally teach the boys a low bar kip first with a glide, then a HB kip and then we move on to the PB kip later on (besides working on jams on the low rail). Somewhere in the middle or before these is doing short/drop kips with a spot, with a kip trainer, and spotted basket swing kips.
Sometimes boys will end up in upper arm instead of support when they learn PB kip.
All of this. I learned using these methods and using the same progression. The only one I would add is putting a cylinder mat in front of you as you kip and make sure you roll the mat so that you feel full extension of the shoulders. Failing to extend usually results in you shooting backwards off the bat because of a earlier kip.
Really? First time I worked it, I worked on the high bar which completely tore of calluses in my palm. In p bar it's mostly the upper layer skin, nothing to much of a trouble.
It's a big shame I can only train in the gym once a week.
I think it would be benificial to go to the park near me to work on a high bar. So I could get some more frequency in.
Also this way I will work it both HB and PB.
(What does underbar mean?)
Due to all of your tips I really got a clear idea how to do this now. In my head I really understand the movement quite a lot better.
Jurre said:Really? First time I worked it, I worked on the high bar which completely tore of calluses in my palm. In p bar it's mostly the upper layer skin, nothing to much of a trouble.
It's a big shame I can only train in the gym once a week.
I think it would be benificial to go to the park near me to work on a high bar. So I could get some more frequency in.
Also this way I will work it both HB and PB.
(What does underbar mean?)
Due to all of your tips I really got a clear idea how to do this now. In my head I really understand the movement quite a lot better.
I can't tell about pbar vs normal bar, of course.
But I guess, "underbar" maybe means just a regular bar which is so low, you have to pike while you glide, then extend in front. On higt bar, you can pretty much glide or swing forward straight. Hope you understand that!
Great, such things always start in your head by understanding the motion!
Well, I also think once a week is really not much. I would highly recommend training at least 3 times a week! Can you go to open gym? Or maybe just look for option to install a bar at home?
Or go to a park like you said!
If none of that is possible, you should watch tons of videos, visualize the movement, try to imagine how it feels and maybe try some drills without the bar at home. Also, if you are not doing it already, work on your strength. Abs, shoulders ans triceps.
Do dips, tricep push-ups, planche leans and tons of hollow rocks and leg lifts.
Good luck!
Unfortunately there is no open gym or something in that vein.
Next to once a week gym session I still get my strength work in about 4 times a week. In some of those strength workouts i´ll get to the park to practice the kip. At this moment that´s the only way to get some decent frequency in.
Edit: Also will be doing this at home: ffnSRRVbsIU to get the movement down.
Underbar work means P-bar work below the rails.
There is probably more force on your hands during High Bar work except that when doing underbar work, it generally means lots of sets and repetitions of swings. Thus, the hands get abused.
So.. I practiced the kip yesterday.
I got my arms vertical with the p bars. My coach says it is mostly timing right now. I'm pretty sure I got the strength.
Wanted to practice some more, but unfortunately got a bloody little tear again. My hands seem to toughen up a bit though.
Would it be a good idea to start training highbar with leathers? Or should I atleast get some basic skin conditioning first?
Right now i'm only working on ringstrength (at home), P bars and floor basics. Will start incorporating some highbar stuff when I got some P bar stuff down.
Make up some tapegrips. If you do them correctly they can be re-useable unless they get sweaty (happens to some people).
I've heard of PB grips but have yet to actually really see a pair.
It's gonna take awhile only doing apparatus once per week.
If you are really serious about HB, I could see about investing in some HB grip but they aren't really cheap. There is a school of thought that says ASAP and others who say develop grip strength and get into grips after a kip and when you start working push aways from a cast, giants and clear hips. Another school of thought says to get into them soon so you won't have to readjust skills.
Pretty much once guys start swinging big on HB or Rings, it's time to get into grips. It's a bit different for the girls because many young girls will fail to learn how to catch the bar in a low bar kip if they are in grips too soon. For the guys, well less likely chance of peeling off the apparatus and getting injured...or dying.
I reckon the underbar work will get me a decent basis for now.
Wasn't aware the grips were expensive actually. Will have a think about it, not an issue right now. I might also have seen some laying around in the gym.