Progression and Mastery Stacking

Hello everyone,

 

As Coach Sommer said tons of times on this forum, it's better not to rush through progressions and first master the fundamentals so I decided to step back into the pulling fundamentals and master every pull-ups variations from the easiest to the hardest to progress onto harder elements later. This morning, i just constantly stacked every progression with its mastery (5x5) with a perfect strict form (2 sec deadhang between every reps, no sagging,no kipping ) :

 

- Pull-ups (5x5) = 25

- Chin-ups (5x5) = 25

- L Chin-ups (5x5) = 25

- L Pull-ups (5x5) =25

- Bulgarian Pull-ups (5x5) = 25

- Bulgarian L pull-ups (5x5) = 25

- Wide Grip Pull-ups (5x5) = 25

- Wide Behind the Back Pull-ups (5x5) = 25

 

Which led me to 200 pull-ups and i have to say that when you see "5x5r" for the first time, you laugh because you think it's too easy but then when you try to stack all the progressions and masteries with less than 1 minutes of break between it's really hard. Plus, it's a really great workout. That's what make the foundation work so interesting personnally.

That's impressive. After doing such giant sets(?) wouldn't you probably have to increase your recovery period exponentially too?

Well, 2 hours after this workout, I still feel my whole arms, my back on fire and still extra-pumped so as you suggested, i'm gonna take 24-48 hours of serious rest to recover carefully. I plan to do the same with dips progressions and masteries once i'll be mastering every dips progressions because i'm still having difficulties with undergrip and overgrip korean dips and russian dips but would be interesting to see how it goes !

omg you really really need to buy the foundation series,you still have ALOT  to learn before you can start making your own programs

what if i want to experiment something a little bit original out of foundation work  ? Does that mean i'm not following the foundation series courses ? And if you have followed the foundation as you state, you'd probably figured out these are logical progression from the foundation course referring to RC/2.

We are in f2 sub forum everyone reading this has at least f2 material.

ausswe said:

We are in f2 sub forum everyone reading this has at least f2 material.

It was originally in one of the public subs. A mod must have moved it.

Charley Petit said:

Hello everyone,

 

As Coach Sommer said tons of times on this forum, it's better not to rush through progressions and first master the fundamentals so I decided to step back into the pulling fundamentals and master every pull-ups variations from the easiest to the hardest to progress onto harder elements later. This morning, i just constantly stacked every progression with its mastery (5x5) with a perfect strict form (2 sec deadhang between every reps, no sagging,no kipping ) :

 

- Pull-ups (5x5) = 25

- Chin-ups (5x5) = 25

- L Chin-ups (5x5) = 25

- L Pull-ups (5x5) =25

- Bulgarian Pull-ups (5x5) = 25

- Bulgarian L pull-ups (5x5) = 25

- Wide Grip Pull-ups (5x5) = 25

- Wide Behind the Back Pull-ups (5x5) = 25

 

Which led me to 200 pull-ups and i have to say that when you see "5x5r" for the first time, you laugh because you think it's too easy but then when you try to stack all the progressions and masteries with less than 1 minutes of break between it's really hard. Plus, it's a really great workout. That's what make the foundation work so interesting personnally.

You really should have double checked with the course before trying your mastery stacking attempt.

 

RC/PE8: Pull ups 5x5

RC/PE9: L Chin Ups 5x5

RC/PE10: L Pull Ups 5x5

RC/PE11: Bulgarian Pull Ups 5x5

RC/PE12: Bulgarian L Pull Ups 5x5

RC/PE13: Wide Grip Pull Ups 5x5 (Hand placement- 1.5x shoulder width minimum)

RC/PE14: Behind the Neck Pull Ups 5x5

RC/PE15: Wide Grip L Pull Ups 5x5 (Hand placement approximately 2x shoulder width)

 

None the less, congratulations on doing 200 pull ups in one day.

I challenge you to do the same with our friends The Rows from F1 and finishing with the lovely RC/PE6

I personally would love to see a video of someone simply completing RC6 without using any extra time apart from the IM for recovery.

I really put my back into it but only achieved 5x48s. And I used some extra rest time.^^ Finally I just skipped it and moved on because I don't see the benefit in working this progression for a very long time. F2 and even F3 RC are a joke compared with RC6 in my opinion.

If RC6 is not a joke probably your basic strength on elbows  flexors and forearms muscles it's not so good.

Well  my brother actually does not use any rest then the necessary. But i think that this is how foundations works.

I was very skeptical at the beginning because I was not able to figure out how it is possible work with this low rest because my energy system was not adapted for it.

well what I've learned after completing different  elements is that the rest you are doing in foundations is simply a LOT compared on what you can see at high level gymnasts. Hungarian schedule and elite gymnastic conditioning is far more harder . I understand now why they are called foundations.

think that, back in time for some years, the elite national italian national team performed as a strength station in a circuit a set of maltese cross press to planche for 4-5 repetition in a row and every position held for 3 seconds.

this is a TUT of about 24-30 '' for the isometric part and considering the transitions one exercise stays in between 45'' to 60'' TUT. then you rest 15'' before the next exercise. the idea of brutal strength work is completely out of my possibilities. 

Zach Armijo said:

Why don't you enlighten me then My pulling strength decreased while working F1 elements, I lost my OAC too.

And please don't assume I am very impatient or lack motivation, I worked RC6 for a considerable time and didnot achieve anything...

alex87 said:

Well  my brother actually does not use any rest then the necessary. But i think that this is how foundations works.

I was very skeptical at the beginning because I was not able to figure out how it is possible work with this low rest because my energy system was not adapted for it.

well what I've learned after completing different  elements is that the rest you are doing in foundations is simply a LOT compared on what you can see at high level gymnasts. Hungarian schedule and elite gymnastic conditioning is far more harder . I understand now why they are called foundations.

think that, back in time for some years, the elite national italian national team performed as a strength station in a circuit a set of maltese cross press to planche for 4-5 repetition in a row and every position held for 3 seconds.

this is a TUT of about 24-30 '' for the isometric part and considering the transitions one exercise stays in between 45'' to 60'' TUT. then you rest 15'' before the next exercise. the idea of brutal strength work is completely out of my possibilities. 

Yeah that is insane^^ Some of the top gymnasts are mutants, it is unbelievable that is even possible to achieve such amazing feats.

how many months did you spend on RC/PE6. for me as an example of poor preparation on some muscles, a long time was 6 months of SLPE1 and 7 for SL PE2.

alex87 said:

how many months did you spend on RC/PE6. for me as an example of poor preparation on some muscles, a long time was 6 months of SLPE1 and 7 for SL PE2.

A couple of months, I cannot remember the exact amount. I worked the final microcycle for at least three or four months.

A couple of months is not to much. The best thing to do is post a video of the difficult element in order to see if the technique could be a limiting factor for the progression.

Zach Armijo said:

Putting in your time and due diligence with these elements pays off in a way you cannot even see yet. When you get there, you will be glad you stuck it out.

 

Couldn't agree more!

I think I was on RC pe6 for 9 months and I started at week 5.... Always fell short during week 10 or sometimes even 9 ( like most exercises with similar required times I have found the last cycle impossible for a while).

I eventually got it though I lost considerable amounts of strength in my pulling. I am up to Bulgarians now though and have lost that RC pe6 endurance completely that exercise clearly comes from another world. Hopefully haven't lost any non muscular strengthening that the exercise should have given me. No idea how you can figure out safely if you joint strength has changed.

J0X said:

I personally would love to see a video of someone simply completing RC6 without using any extra time apart from the IM for recovery.

I really put my back into it but only achieved 5x48s. And I used some extra rest time.^^ Finally I just skipped it and moved on because I don't see the benefit in working this progression for a very long time. F2 and even F3 RC are a joke compared with RC6 in my opinion.

 

 

J0X said:

Why don't you enlighten me then My pulling strength decreased while working F1 elements, I lost my OAC too.

And please don't assume I am very impatient or lack motivation, I worked RC6 for a considerable time and did not achieve anything...

You say you aren't impatient or lack motivation. However your initial post, also quoted above, would prove you wrong. (Bolding and underlining added for emphasis)

 

As for the benefit of RC/PE6...your skeleton has access to more muscular strength because the connective tissue which holds your muscles to your bones has become stronger and larger. 

 

As for motivation.....

Youtube videos:

Flexed Arm Hang contest part 1

Flexed Arm Hang contest part 2

Flexed Arm Hang contest part 3

Rayne-William, those videos are wild! I have never heard of such a contest.

 

For those of us who have experienced difficulty with RC/PE6, especially if you achieved mastery level but then lost it when you moved onto later elements... something as simple as warming up or cooling down with one 60-second hold per week has really helped me maintain the strength endurance I build while focusing on that element.

 

Like Coach says, the greater your absolute strength, the more you need higher reps and longer holds in your training!

Zach Armijo said:

Your point of enlightenment would be when you see that this specific element is about building the more intricate muscles of the arms and forearms along with the joints and tendons as Alex was leading into.

Throughout Foundations, you will realize that not everything is about direct strength gains. What I mean by that is that there are "primers" for the foundations. This being one them. Probably one of the most important ones.

These primers are almost foundations within foundations. Much like having Bench Dips AFTER PPPs. The Bench Dips are preparing something very specific in regards to ROM, not just strength, for later elements.

The static chin hangs are a common road block for most people, but as Alex can attest to, these can and WILL take some time to master. They also shouldn't be skipped, especially at the mastery level. Putting in your time and due diligence with these elements pays off in a way you cannot even see yet. When you get there, you will be glad you stuck it out.

I don't have to comment directly to impatience as not finishing something and skipping ahead states it all.

Do not concern yourself with specialized strength loss such as your OAC. That will be easily gained again when you are ready for it again. If it's that big of a deal to you, work on it AFTER your foundational work.

Make haste slowly as Coach would say.

Fantastic post.

Double post too, but I definitely completed it without resting any longer than the mobility. Four months. Do you think anyone 1.0 or higher could sneak inadequate prep past Coach or the community managers?

kinda unlikely.

I hate this element, frankly, but the benefits are there. They take a while but they're surprisingly profound. Since completing it I feel no pressure at all on my elbows from muscle ups, and my pulling strength is much better coming more from .my back than my arms. I say that from the position of testing through all the F2 pullup progressions in one session each.

That first post with all the pull ups is damn impressive though. Bet that took a few days to loosen up