Confused and disappointed

Hej everyone,

I recently completed RC pe6, thank god.... That thing took over half a year... Anyway before I started pe 6 I had almost mastered all of f2 RC. Now that I have actually reached f2 for training though I have lost a significant amount of strength in pull ups and am currently working under grip L pull ups started at week 5 currently at week 8. I am pretty disappointed because over the past month I seem to struggle to hit RC pe6 mastery now as well that I have moved on to pull ups....

It is so frustrating that all that time I spent working for mastery on pe6 when I already had the strength and mobility to so f3only to finish and have lost all that strength and now I've already lost my ability to hold mastery of pe6 after only about 5 weeks of doing pull up progressions.

I don't know how this could happen or why but it is more than disheartening and makes me question the 6+ months I spent on this exercise....

Sorry for rant.

Short version:

Beginning of the year I master all of f2 RC but hadn't passed pe6 so stuck to the program and did pe6

Now stuck on under grip L pulls ups(much weaker) and after 5 weeks of pull up progression can't do pe6 mastery any more...

As a side note when I tested mastery for f2 RC before my pe6 training just for fun I tested through mastery of pe 7 8 and 9 day 1 then 10 11 day 2 , pe 12 on day 3, day 4 rest, day 5 pe 13 and 14.

Your vision is incomplete. RC/PE6 is also a therapeutic and conditioning exercise.

It's normal to lose mastery on a given exercise if you stop doing it at mastery level.

Keep 1x60s RC/PE6 in your warmup.

Your pull up strength will go back quickly

Yeah, strength will come back quickly and you're at PE9, so you still skipped two PEs and now you're basically a badass for having passed PE6. 

Also, I'm pretty sure you won't need to spend 12 weeks on each progression.

Did your body weight change during this time?

Is everyone passing pe6 of RC with the only rest coming in the iM? It is a tiny amount of rest for this level.

Bobby Harmston said:

Is everyone passing pe6 of RC with the only rest coming in the iM? It is a tiny amount of rest for this level.

Everyone who's rightfully passing it is, yes.

Interesting topic, ausswe, hope you get some constructive feedback on this.

I know the this is meant to be conditioning my elbow but tbh I worked on it for more than 6 months ( I think it was actually 9 months now that I look back) which is more than enough to reap the benefits of the elbow conditioning this would give considering it is just one small part of a giant plan. I know you aren't meant to maintaine mastery of everything and I keep a set of 60 seconds in my warm up but the problem is I'm struggling a lot on this current pe which before I started pe6 I could do mastery in my sleep.... ( I'm a climber so I have been doing lock of training for a while but never pushed beyond a few sets of 30 seconds so my elbows you'd think by now should be beyond that stage of training)

Now if I only just had mastery of this elements before and I was currently feeling like I am quickly. It steadily getting back to where I was that would be fine. Problem is I did mastery of a few elements back to back when I tested my self before and I could still do more.

My point being, f2 RC was a joke to me before and now I'm struggling quite hard at 3x5 on pe9.

I've gained 1-2kilos mostly muscle I guess as I'm looking leaner than I was. ( used to be able to do several reps dead hang pull ups with half body weight for sets)

Cheers for your responses

That sucks. Hope your strength comes back soon.

You may be now doing your pull-ups differently I.e more correctly than before? Which would make them seem harder.

I agree with Kate.

if you have any film of your sets of PE6, compare them then to how you perform it now. it would also be helpful to have pullup demonstrations from before and compare them to now. because I remember being able to power out 14 reps max effort and im NOWHERE near that now. not even close. all because I included the dead hang....then the hollow body...then the retraction + depression... so imagine what one form fix can do, imagine several compounding PLUS new mobility. you're a stronger version of you, no doubt, if you did mastery. 

You could be right about the pe6 form being different now but definitely not the pull up form. Thanks to gymnasticbodies and rock climbing I was always incredibly strict with my pull up form. Always went to dead hang because I needed that complete end rom strength for climbing. I mixed up hollow body and arched back pul ups though for variety but there wasn't a huge difference and when doing L pull ups you can't exactly arch in your pull ups to make them easier.

Anyway I don't have any video of my previous pull ups to compare but I guess it's too late now. I am just really in happy about it as it was one of the few things I was proud of. I have no choice but to build back up.

Don't worry, any strength level that you have achieved at some point is much easier to reach again than it was to attain originally. I am a climber too and a friend of mine had a bad accident (was put in induced coma) which had him come out of the hospital barely waliking. Within a few months, he was back to where he was - climbing 5.13. 

I am surprised by two things: a) that RC/PE6 gave you so much trouble as a climber - I think it's mostly about grip strength and only failed at 50+ seconds of the last set on my first go at it and 

b) that you would train PE6 only for 6-9 months without pulling work while still expecting not to lose pulling strength - did you keep up your climbing? 

Kept up with climbing. I spent most of my climbing bouldering and only this year working harder on rope so my endurance isn't great. When I started pe6 I started around week 5 and every time I got to week 9 I felt like I had to go back and repeat the last cycle after trying that for a while with no success I started just pushing as much as I could for 5 sets until I hit the required 5x60. And you would expect while training pe6 and climbing and considering my pull up strength previously I wouldn't have regressed so far but it looks like I was wrong

I wish now I had just moved on from pe6 months ago tbh as I don't feel I really gained anything in these past few months from it...

don't know what to say, bud. i'll only be able to give reasonable feedback once i master it. until then.

keep calm and venture on

Out of interest what was your RC warmup? I'm planning to do 3x8r of PE:5. I'm also a boulderer though I only climb v3/4.

I'm starting on the 30s mastery template hoping that very slow gradual progress will save me having to repeat micro cycles.

I really don't want to be stuck on this one for a long time.

Murray Truelove said:

Out of interest what was your RC warmup? I'm planning to do 3x8r of PE:5. I'm also a boulderer though I only climb v3/4.

I'm starting on the 30s mastery template hoping that very slow gradual progress will save me having to repeat micro cycles.

I really don't want to be stuck on this one for a long time.

I'm guessing you WILL have to repeat cycles, or at the least keep pushing the times in the upper ranges for what amounts to several cycles. Most people would be able to deal with the 30 second template fairly easily, and I presume that this doesn't trigger adaptation to a very high degree; it's when you begin to deal with 4x48s and above that the insanity really begins, and I don't think the body will kick in with at suitable adaptation for that load, until it actually experiences it.

Edit: What I meant to say was that there's probably no way around the suffering, so you might as well get cracking

Thanks Ravn. I've got fairly sensitive elbows (doesn't seem to take much for tendonitis to flare up) so I'm happy building up slowly.

The IM doesn't take long at all (only about 20s) which seems mad considering the hold time, it's a shame it isn't only 5x30s!

Did you notice any change in the development of your lower biceps? I have lost some pull up endurance as well, however I have noticed a big change in how the front of my elbow looks and feels. It is a lot thicker in the lower bicep muscle and the connective tissue feels bigger.

It will be interesting to hear your thoughts in another year. You may find the elbow prep will push you to the next level and when you get to rings you will not get injured.

Biceps don't look particularly different. Not sure what you mean by the front of the elbow.

I think this is one of those instances where we just have to trust Coach and his programming.

Maybe you have lost some strength short term but will be much stronger later than when you hadn't mastered RC/PE 6.

Yeah, maybe you need to think of it like painting the fence.

I think this is one of those instances where you must not shut down your common sense.

If you don't do pullups for 6-9 months, you will not be where you were after. So if you had them before you started this PE, incorporate some (1-3 sets probably, of the hardest variation you've mastered) in your warmup or (probably more sensible in this case) after the main workout for maintenance. That way, you will get all the benefits of building the PE while also not losing what you had when you started. 

ausswe said:

... As a side note when I tested mastery for f2 RC before my pe6 training just for fun I tested through mastery of pe 7 8 and 9 day 1 then 10 11 day 2 , pe 12 on day 3, day 4 rest, day 5 pe 13 and 14 ...

So you are saying that on day 1 of your RC mastery testing you performed 5 sets of 5 reps each of PE7, PE8 and PE9 for a total of 15 sets and 75 reps?

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

The front of the elbow is where the bicep tendon attaches. The bit that is not pointy.