Has Coach seen this?

This is a link from the CrossFit Journal. It's a discussion board talking about strict pull ups, kipping pull ups, butterfly pull ups, and the inherent danger of kipping prior to establishing a solid foundation of strength and/or mobility in the shoulder. I know he's mentioned in the past - 5 good, strict pull ups in conjunction with shoulder mobility prior to kipping...I was curious if he (or anyone else) had anything to add to this video or any other disagreements with it (other than his previous statement of 5 good pull ups and adequate shoulder ROM).

http://library.crossfit.com/free/video/CFJ_Offline_6Russell_Pull_ups_ipod.mov

Just curious.....

(P.S. Hopefully the link works...otherwise copy/paste).

Thanks!

 I didn't even watch the video after finding out Carl Pioli was involved.

What's up with Carl Paoli?

Edit: forgot question mark.

I stopped at the word Crossfit

I stopped before I even received notification of this post. BAM and as a side note, Eat it .

This has been posted here before. If you've seen the barbell shrugged (the crossfit podcast) episode where Sommer was a guest he covers this and ACL injuries from box jumps. 

In short; you have to have prepared connective tissue if you're going to apply 2-3x times bodyweight (the bottom of a kipping pullup). Movement 1 is going to cover this sort of thing.

I'm also curious what the issue is with Carl Paoli?

Samson said:

I'm also curious what the issue is with Carl Paoli?

I suspect that his insistence that kipping pull-ups are a good thing doesn't fit well with some folks (myself I happen to disagree with this school of thought).

Here is my prior response to crossfit's preference for utilizing kipping pull-ups with beginners:

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/14379-crossfit-discussion-about-kipping-movements-dave-durate/#entry140624

Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:44 AM

The blind leading the blind.

Kipping pullups are an advanced plyometric strength element and should be avoided by beginners.  Period.

Why?
As they lack any meaningful degree of muscular strength, kipping pullups prematurely force beginners to initiate lift by bouncing off the connective tissue of the shoulder girdle at the bottom of the movement. 

We are dealing with multiples of bodyweight here due to the plyometric nature of the repulsion out of the bottom.  So beginners who are not strong enough to handle their own bodyweight are now exposed to multiples of bodyweight?  

Also as the shoulder girdle is not strong enough to handle the load, the shoulder girdle is also stretched past its current safe max ROM.

To recap:
Beginners.  Weak.  Multiples of bodyweight.  Excessive ROM.  Bouncing off connective tissue.  High Reps.  High Volume.

It is only since the widespread adoption of kipping pullups as an introductory 'strength' element that we have seen a rash of slap tears in adult fitness enthusiasts.

David's recommendation of 3 dead hang is too conservative.  A 5 rep minimum is more suitable.

Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer

Thanks Coach! For some reason I was under the impression Carl recommneded a number of strict pullups prior to begining kipping work, but rewatching the video that is clearly not that case.

i did not resist to share it on my fb page...people of calisthenic tend to refuse my logic idea. probably national team coach's idea it's a better.

Carl Paoli contradicted himself.

He said that as a coach, he should not restrict what his athletes can or cannot do so he says that you should not follow a natural progression.   Few minutes later, Durante asked him whether he (Paoli) would start someone on butterfly kipping pullup right away, and Carl Paoli says no, they because they dont have that foundation yet

Listening to Jacob Tsypkin really irritates me.  He may one day learn from injuring someone, but at that point - is that a lesson you "really" want to learn the hard way?

alan tseng said:

He said that as a coach, he should not restrict what his athletes can or cannot do so he says that you should not follow a natural progression. 

Isn't that exactly what one pays a coach to do? To know better and more objectively about your level and progression? >.<