Early morning training? Tendon/ligament pain?

Not sure if this is the right forum, but I've got some things I'm trying to figure out which have to do with strength training.

I've trained most of my life in the evenings.

In the past several months I've been making some awesome improvements in all around strength, even getting a one-arm-pull-up and a few 90 degree pushups.

I started training at 5am and have been doing it for the past 5 weeks.

Progress was still evident, even though some areas plateaued.  I also had a good energy level to include high-volume flare training at the end.

But...for the past week, energy levels have not been even close to the same.  For the past three days, I also got twinges or sharp feelings of pain when doing cross, back lever, and front lever in various parts of the arm and shoulder.  I can't do the one-arm-pull-up anymore either.  I also feel super sluggish throughout the rest of the day.

I'm concerned that a bicep or lat is going to just pop on me.

Is that even possible, or am I over-reacting?

I've read quite a bit about morning training as well as overtraining.  I feel like I'm taking good precautions.  Wake up with protein, coffee, juice, water, vitamines.  Warm up with bands for about 5-10 minutes.  Then go into the workout, which is usually 5 sets of 4 different strength exercises, followed by handbalancing and then powermoves.

Any thoughts?  Should I quit training in the morning?  Could it be overtraining?

Thanks in advance.

Did you Deload during your 4th week?

Do not train through bicep or lat pain, particularly in cross work a total rupture is entirely possible and catastrophic!

More than likely you overestimated your recent gains and have gone beyond the capacity of your tendons and ligaments.

I've been doing the same workouts with sets and reps with little increases here and there for months.

What do you consider "pain"?  Training hurts.  Are surprising twinges that cause for pause the same thing as "training through pain"?

leeaw said:

I've been doing the same workouts with sets and reps with little increases here and there for months.

What do you consider "pain"? Training hurts. Are surprising twinges that cause for pause the same thing as "training through pain"?

Training should not produce pain. Mental pain is fine as is burning muscle sensation. But joint pain or sharp pains or constant aches are not. I've learned this the hard way and relearned it. And relearned it...

Yes having surprising twinges of sharp pain is not a good thing. You said it yourself, feels like a bicep or lat is going to burst. Well they do burst which is why we are constantly nagging on getting the fundamentals done right. It gives time and gradually graded stress for your connective tissues to safely adapt under.

I don't personally know your training history, but when it comes to training cross, a reoccurring theme here is do your due diligence and follow the progression Coach put up meticulously. In fact at this point the recommendation has been further scaled back. Get all the Fundamental GST elements first then and only then begin serious ring training.

i guess what im wondering is if morning training things that are very intensive strength movements is bad on the tendons, because this only started recently.  and it isnt just cross or back lever.  its reverse leg curls, middle split holds, front levers, even planches.

One way to find out is go back to your normal time and compare. 

It may be your not warmed up enough, not rested enough, or your system just isn't used to the new time.

Just do Foundation first.  It's one of those things that, if you stick with it long enough, you absolutely will not regret.  I used to think that because I'd been doing WODs in some form or another for about a year that I should skip Foundation.  I mean, I could do a "back lever"...  I was wrong.  Then I thought because I was pressing 2X32kg and 2X40 kg kettle bells for ridiculous amounts of volume three days per week that Foundation (and I mean step 1 for most movements) wouldn't be enough.  I was wrong again.

I've finally realized that coming from pretty much any other physical activity and taking up GST is like transferring from your local community college to the Ivy League:  Your credits do not transfer.  That's okay, though, because starting from year one whilst being among the best strength athletes in the world is worth playing a little catch up.  

And once you really commit to the program, you starting having fun almost right away.  Almost every training session of Foundation brings with it the rewards of progress.   "Is that pleasant, fatigued sensation in my knees and elbows the connective tissue remodeling Coach Sommer talks about?"  Yes, it most certainly is.  That feeling is a back lever.  And an iron cross.  And a Manna.  Even if I never make it to these skills (which I most certainly will), the immediate payoff of post-Foundation strength and suppleness is worth at least twice the effort one puts in to it.

Cole Dano said:

One way to find out is go back to your normal time and compare. 

 

It may be your not warmed up enough, not rested enough, or your system just isn't used to the new time.

Thats what I was wondering.  Is the tendon not physiologically ready to meet the demands first thing in the morning?  It seems to me that is the only difference in training.   And no, I didn't just jump up and start doing back levers and front levers.  I've been training these movements for several years.  But is a tear something that just happens out of the blue because the body isn't ready?  And are the tendons, if used at an improper time of day getting worn more and more?

I don't like early morning training. In comparison to later in the day I feel weaker and stiff. I definitely feel more susceptible to injury with early training, particularly with tweaking my traps.

There sure can be a difference in strength levels, feeling of being  'on' etc training at different times of day. Tendons and ligaments are mechanically just as strong, because they are essentially just fibres, but the nervous system that controls the system is highly variable. Also body temperature matters, in other words begin warmed up, if your body is still cold, and nervous control a bit off, you are more susceptible to injury.

A lot of this just comes down to everyday experience, we all know there are times when we work better feel stronger etc. I tend like to work out in the evening the best, but notice that if it gets past 10pm my strength seems to go way down. These types of things are just part of normal human experience.

However if your circumstance is such that you have no choice, will the body adapt, yes. You might feel a bit off for a week or two, have to back off a bit but you will get back to where you were if you persist and listen to your body in the meantime.

Back in my Ashtanga days I'd often be training very early in the morning, at first it was pure misery, but after a while I found I actually was performing better. Of course, now that I don't have to do train early I don't and find I'm generally a bit more pleasant to be around.

Sven Ravnstag said:

Just do Foundation first. It's one of those things that, if you stick with it long enough, you absolutely will not regret. I used to think that because I'd been doing WODs in some form or another for about a year that I should skip Foundation. I mean, I could do a "back lever"... I was wrong. Then I thought because I was pressing 2X32kg and 2X40 kg kettle bells for ridiculous amounts of volume three days per week that Foundation (and I mean step 1 for most movements) wouldn't be enough. I was wrong again.

I've finally realized that coming from pretty much any other physical activity and taking up GST is like transferring from your local community college to the Ivy League: Your credits do not transfer. That's okay, though, because starting from year one whilst being among the best strength athletes in the world is worth playing a little catch up.

And once you really commit to the program, you starting having fun almost right away. Almost every training session of Foundation brings with it the rewards of progress. "Is that pleasant, fatigued sensation in my knees and elbows the connective tissue remodeling Coach Sommer talks about?" Yes, it most certainly is. That feeling is a back lever. And an iron cross. And a Manna. Even if I never make it to these skills (which I most certainly will), the immediate payoff of post-Foundation strength and suppleness is worth at least twice the effort one puts in to it.

Great post. This is scary close to my own experience

I had similar experiences with early morning training, and also my girlfriend. Early morning simply means selecting the point of the day where you are least warmed up. Some minutes bands are negligible against warming up in very different ways during 12 hours or so.

Coffee gives you a good boost, but is dangerous. I've torn my biceps once while climbing after coffee, and I know similar stories of soccer players tearing their thighs by drinking coffee and immediately aiming to score a goal. There are different explanations: Dehydration because you want to get rid of the caffeine, or: Caffeine is neutralizing magnesium ions? In any case, after drinking coffee I wait half an hour and drink enough water with magnesium (aspartate or citrate). 

Jon Douglas said:

Great post. This is scary close to my own experience

Thanks, Jon!  It's as tiring to repeat the mantra of "Just do the program" over and over again as it is to hear it over and over before you've had first hand experience of just how valuable it is.  At least when the program in question was designed by a world class expert in the field.  

It's fun to bask in the reality of how utterly devoid of hyperbole that last statement is...Impressive credentials that aren't grossly exaggerated or entirely made up.  It appears as though there is a first for everything, even in the fitness world.  

My body is wrecked.  I think waking at 4 or 5 everyday for 5 weeks straight diminished my sleep/recovery time.  During the last week, it basically felt like I was just forcing all of the reps.  My calf was wrecked from reverse leg curls, bicep from back lever, shoulder from cross, elbow from handstand pushups.  I am taking a whole week off to heal.  Little things are coming to the surface too, like I leaned on my other elbow and it started hurting.  Think giving a wholr werk to rest and only do little work is good?  I think so.  I also think I wasnt drinking enough water.  I didnt expect the fatigue to accumulate as slowly as it did, and wreak such havok.

"Almost every training session of Foundation brings with it the rewards of progress. "Is that pleasant, fatigued sensation in my knees and elbows the connective tissue remodeling Coach Sommer talks about?" Yes, it most certainly is. "

I'm so glad I read this quote. I was starting to get worried. Because the SLS mobility work and strength work. Thought I might be doing something wrong. No pain, just fatigued feeling in the knees at the end of the day, then the following morning waking up feeling stronger than before and more ROM to go with it : )