Manna/Leg Raises

Hello, I have been very stagnate with my leg raises such as, I have used my shoulders to much in the past, or I would no be using my abdominals strength, I would be using my hip flexors to raise my legs. I have noticed that gymnast always point there toes, that it is like proper etiquette that you always point your toes, but when I point my toes, I use more of my hip flexors and when I pull my toes up I can fell it more in the abdominal region, and I can feel that I am extremely weak in that position (toes pointed up toward the sky). So I guess it is more about personal preference for how you can activate your abdominals better. Has anyone else had this problem, or maybe help me ease my hip flexors so I use the proper muscles for this movement?  

Hip flexors are part of what you should be using. It's not wrong to feel them

Leg raises do and should involve the hip flexors (since "lifting your legs" is flexing at the hip), so you should not seek to eliminate your hip flexor recruitment. The abdominals flex/resist extension of the spine. If you want to feel them more, then try to perform the first half of the movement (from hanging to legs straight out ahead/slightly above depending on your hamstring flexibility) with the lower back pressed into the stall bars (or if you're doing these on a Roman chair against the back pad, not a suitable substitute for the Manna progressions btw, at least as far as I know), then curl the hips under to continue to left the legs to the bar.

The toe point reduces stretch on the posterior chain (since the Gastrocnemius/upper calf crosses the knee as well as the ankle) which generally allows for better pike flexibility, but also allows you to perform the exercise more effectively because it allows you to bring your toes to the bar rather than your shins.

Flexing the toes is most likely putting your posterior chain under more stretch and thus not allowing your hip flexors to fire as effectively, thus you are trying to make up the extra strength with your abs. You are probably also performing the motion without pressing the lower back into the stall bars if you are not feeling these in your abs, but instead are doing them with an arched lower back.

Hope this helps.

You say to press the lower back into the stall bars but I don't have stall bar and coach's athletes lower backs are leaving the stall bars on every rep .  But I do believe you are correct on arching, because I not only believe that I arch during these but I arch during almost every movement on the bar. How will I know if I am arching on the leg raises? I do feel tension in the lower back at times but I thought that was just me activating the whole entire core?

i'd like to ask a question belonging to leg raises, i was doing MN/PE5 half hanging leg raises, i could do them 5x5, though i moved on and tried in two sessions to do the next step PE6, but i have no chance in doing it, i can get the top position and when i want to go down slowly i feel a lot of pressure in my shoulders, but i have to use my shoulders to stop body from falling down, right?

i think i miss some points there, which could help me a lot. i'm not even able to do it that way, that i feel my abs/hip flexors, its just to hard for my shoulders, so i guess i am doing something wrong here. any tips? is there a progression between the two PEs you could recommend?
 

thanks!

just from my personal standpoint William, when i first started MN/PE6 i had trouble.  I had my wife help me get to the top, feet to bar, position, then i did pulses in that top weak position before doing the negative.  I found this strengthened me very well.  You could also gradually increase the range of motion of your 1/2 HLL to 2/3 raises, then 3/4 raises, etc.  

On a more basic note, you mention you don't have stall bars...what are you doing these on?  if on a pullup bar you are probably using too much lats and shoulders. 

Michael17 said:

You say to press the lower back into the stall bars but I don't have stall bar and coach's athletes lower backs are leaving the stall bars on every rep . But I do believe you are correct on arching, because I not only believe that I arch during these but I arch during almost every movement on the bar. How will I know if I am arching on the leg raises? I do feel tension in the lower back at times but I thought that was just me activating the whole entire core?

You will need to get stall bars or find some sort of reasonable facsimile from what I understand.

Also, I said the first half of a HLL, as in MN/PE5. During that your lower back should remain pressed into the stall bars (or whatever substitute equipment you have set up). Once you get past that point (MN/PE 6 and beyond) your hips and lower back will have to come off the bars, but at that point, especially if you are using stall bars to prevent you from pulling your shoulders behind the bar and using primarily your lats to pull your feet to the bar, your abs should be working hard.

The best way to form check anything is to video it and post it on the forum.

MT Nordic said:

just from my personal standpoint William, when i first started MN/PE6 i had trouble.  I had my wife help me get to the top, feet to bar, position, then i did pulses in that top weak position before doing the negative.  I found this strengthened me very well.  You could also gradually increase the range of motion of your 1/2 HLL to 2/3 raises, then 3/4 raises, etc.  

 

On a more basic note, you mention you don't have stall bars...what are you doing these on?  if on a pullup bar you are probably using too much lats and shoulders. 

Hey Nordic, glad to hear its not just me and i had the same idea, with decreased leverage and slowly increasing it, but the pulses could be work too. i think i will try the shorter leverage idea first, means with tucked legs just rolling up and down with straight arms, could be very challenging too

since i am training at a playground i have stall bars out of metal, but i felt my weakest link in this leg raises stories are my shoulders still...have to figure it out why