OVERTRAINING?

Hi All / Coach

warm up 5-10mins light jog or trampoline

light stretching 5mins

10mins gymnastics consisting forward backward rolls handstands walk round offs handstand straight arm forward rolls etc

p bars swings to handstand 3 x sets 8-10 hold last one for time

mushrooms circles 3 x 20

high bar giants with straps 3 x 10 forward/backwards no more than 30 total

conditioning

ring muscle ups 3 x 8- 10

handstand push up on bars 3 x 6-10

dip circuit - dip hops, 30 dips, variations

press up circuit 20 wide 20 middle 20 narrow

stomach

hanging leg raise 3 x 10-15

10 v-sits hold for 10 dish repeat x 3 no break

chins circuit

5 front ,5 back, 5 switch grip, 5 switch grip other way

runs on foam matting 5 mins

this is the basic outline that can be attempted 3 days a week some times more circuits added

at the end of the week i'm really tired

some of the gymnasts i train with do this volume 4-5 x a week

but at 6ft tall 182lbs i find this hard.

my question do i cut it down or just stick at it?

It's really difficult to answer as none of us really know what your current fitness level is. My suggestion is to constantly reevaluate your program, and if you feel that you are simply too fatigued by it then cut back a bit. Just dont use this advice as an excuse to stop training as hard

-A-

To complete this routine i think requires a good standard of fitness

what my question is - is this volume of exercises and reps generally to high to gain strength?

does anyone else follow the same volume or more/less?

as a coach would you look at this and think that's too many pushing exercises in one workout etc.

I'm not coach sommer, but I'll try to help out here.

There is a problem with trying to compare gymnastics work and classical strength work in its purest sense.

When talking about building up a skill, there is a big technical factor to take into consideration - to a much higher degree than working with weights, and even talking about the free weight movements. Compare the full range-not supported-handstand push ups and military pressing a barbell. The balance, body tension, direction of movement (its not up and down in a vertical line...) are huge requirements.

Sometimes working simpler variations of the movements in order to master those other requirements besides pure strength is helpfull. And if you are not concerned with strength development, your point of view changes as for the number of reps performed. It becomes mainly - perfect practice leads to perfection. (Mind you, its PERFECT practice and not practice)

This can lead to a higher rep training, but never even close to failure, and not even close to technical failure.

After you achieve the higher level skill, to a degree that allows you to build volume with it in training, then you can go to lower rep training and work it like you would work a classical strength skill.

For example, I can do a full planche for 1-2 seconds, but it doesnt allow me to build volume in training, so I use a straddle version for 5-10 second hold in order to advance. I will use the full planche, once it reaches a 5 second solid hold.

Also, take into consideration, in most movements it is more important to work around the concept of 'time under tension' than the classical rep scheme. sets of 0-20 seconds are used in pure strength work- Minimal hypertrophy and minimal pure-endurance. 20-40 seconds are strength+hypertrophy and some strength endurance. 40 and up becomes more of an endurance activity. Those figures are talking about constant tension on the muscular chain in question. If you do mushroom circles, you pass from one arm to the other, and it is a completely diffrent story.

Gymnastics is a lot more complex than classical strength work.

Thank God it is also more rewarding.

Well thought out and very nicely stated, Ido.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

thanks for the replies

so basically to sum this up more empthasis needs to put on gymnastic techniques and practice to improve rather than endless conditioning

the endless circuits have taken their toll by just wearing the body out causing me to start the next session aching and tired and not able to perform certain equipment pieces properly

in future

warm up start with floor and equipment

conditioning exercises at the end?

what do you use for conditioning - L -sit chin ups, muscle ups etc?

anyone have a set conditioning routine i could use which is the most productive.

any help again much appreciated

I know this might be raising the dead... but I would like to throw in my 2 cents.

I think it is a very good thing to train with a log at times. I also believe in doing that you enjoy training in the beginning to keep motivation. I ALSO believe in throwing a log, notebook or piece of paper OUT of a workout once in a while. Anyone that has done martial arts knows that it is not just about conditioning work but about skill training (much like Ido, Coach and many others have stated)

Perhaps try a circuit of warmup and conditioning at the begining. Basic stuff like pushups, pullups, handstands and leg work followed by your skill training for the day. I woul do dynamic stretches followed by my handstands and then my ring routine. I would keep a balance between push and pull exercises (so as not to overdevelop one side) but other than that I just focused on whatever apparatus I plan to use for that day; which, again, goes back to how I use to train in martial arts. "today we are going to do some weapons" or "today we are going to work on kata". Ya know what I'm sayin?

And (if you like training) what is the use in skill training one day only to not be able to do it the next? I can see that once in a while to kick up the pace and push to the next level some changes may need to take place, but for the most part I think you should have fun with it. Am I right?

I don't know.