Loaded Progressive Stretching

Hello!

I read in Ido's fb page that  he's into loaded progressive stretching, which resembles some of Coach Sommer's teaching. I don't have the Foundation Courses, so I don't really know what he's talking about.

I found  a video by gymnasticbodies on youtube of a weighted pike stretch, so I assume the concept is to help the stretch using some weights or gravity/bodyweight?

Ido talks about LPS as more useful than static stretching on the long run (though he also states that he makes use of the latter sometimes). 

What's your view on this topic?

May I ask you some advice, some stretches to reach a comfortable pike and the pancake? 

I'm almost reaching the pike, but without a partner to help me on my back it's quite difficult - the same with the pancake, that one is hell, my back stays rounded most of the times.

Thank you all for your time!

Let's be more precise.  It doesn't merely resemble my teachings, it is based on my teachings as Ido was my student from 2005 to 2011.  

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Ahah, I'm sorry, that was actually what I meant, but I used very poor semantics

For the pike you can try this stretch:

The GB curriculum has a stretching course, once it's released it'll be much cheaper than taking up training with Ido.

meras said:

For the pike you can try this stretch:

 

The GB curriculum has a stretching course, once it's released it'll be much cheaper than taking up training with Ido.

Yes, that's the one I watched on YouTube.

Does that work also for the pancake? with spread legs and/or on the ground holding a weight on the back or in the hand?

P.S. If I'll have the money, I'm definitely buying the F-courses first!

"Let's be more precise. It doesn't merely resemble my teachings, it is based on my teachings as Ido was my student from 2005 to 2011."

I don't like imprecise, euphemistic language either!

As far as I know, loaded progressive stretching is just PNF/contract-relax stretching using weights or bodyweight to help deepen into the stretch. 

Matteo Zampieri said:

Yes, that's the one I watched on YouTube.

Does that work also for the pancake? with spread legs and/or on the ground holding a weight on the back or in the hand?

 

P.S. If I'll have the money, I'm definitely buying the F-courses first!

Try it out and see if it works   I use a weight plate  on my back and do sets of 30 seconds. Another thing I like to do is grab a plate or a barbell, sit down, legs spread out and lower my body down to the ground and then back up. I'd recommend having a good pancake for this and focus on keeping the back straight. 

Loaded progressive stretching is indeed very much based on Coach's material. As Ido teaches it, LPS should follow two simple rules:

- the tissue you're trying to work should be loaded --> an increase in ROM should be accompanied by an increase in strength in that ROM.  By the way, this does not imply external weights... It could very well (initially) be bodyweight (for example, a one-leg straight leg deadlift)

- the stretching should be progressive --> you shouldn't perform the same stretch (same sets, reps, load, ROM, etc.) twice

The system of progression is very simple: 

1: always try to improve ROM

2: if you can't improve ROM --> increase intensity (add weight) (in the next workout)
3: if still no increase in ROM (or the increased intensity led to too much loss of ROM in the first place in which case you should go back down in intensity again) --> increase volume

After you reach a certain point in your current stretch, you should proceed to a more advanced stretch.

So, not a lot of "magic" in loaded progressive stretching. The concepts are good  (build strength in new ROM, progressive stretching) but nothing new under the sun... 

Erwin, thank you for sharing, that's very interesting. While true that there's nothing new under the sun, some information is just plain difficult to get access to or to find online.

Hello,

Recently I started doing the weighted pike stretches as displayed in the video above. For some reason this has started causing me lower back pain. I am not sure why this is, my current belief is that it is a result of poor back flexibility, causing my lower back to endure a lot of the load in a disadvantaged position. 

I would appreciate if someone experienced could tell me (honestly no guesswork) why this is happening, and what pre-requisite I should possibly try to meet before moving onto this type of stretch. 

Good advice is highly appreciated.

Ramy.

noybrw said:

Hello,

Recently I started doing the weighted pike stretches as displayed in the video above. For some reason this has started causing me lower back pain. I am not sure why this is, my current belief is that it is a result of poor back flexibility, causing my lower back to endure a lot of the load in a disadvantaged position.

I would appreciate if someone experienced could tell me (honestly no guesswork) why this is happening, and what pre-requisite I should possibly try to meet before moving onto this type of stretch.

Good advice is highly appreciated.

Ramy.

Got a video of you doing the stretch? Could be that you're stuck in PPT so loading your lower back.

Agree w/ Murray. You're likely getting your flexibility from your lower back as opposed to flexing at the hip and pelvis with a fairly straight back. Of course there will be some flexion of the L-spine, but if you look at the athlete in the video, most of the range of motion comes from the hips/pelvis. You can see his chin is below his knees, and this is a good indicator of the ROM occurring at the hips. If your ROM is coming from your back your chin will be up by your thighs. If you're having back pain that is probably what you are doing.

MT Nordic said:

Agree w/ Murray. You're likely getting your flexibility from your lower back as opposed to flexing at the hip and pelvis with a fairly straight back. Of course there will be some flexion of the L-spine, but if you look at the athlete in the video, most of the range of motion comes from the hips/pelvis. You can see his chin is below his knees, and this is a good indicator of the ROM occurring at the hips. If your ROM is coming from your back your chin will be up by your thighs. If you're having back pain that is probably what you are doing.

Yes you are right. When doing the stretch my back is not straight, and my chin is up by my thighs! Now that you and I realize this, why is this happening? Is this a result of limited flexibility in my back? And how do I resolve this? 

noybrw said:

Yes you are right. When doing the stretch my back is not straight, and my chin is up by my thighs! Now that you and I realize this, why is this happening? Is this a result of limited flexibility in my back? And how do I resolve this?

Google "toe touch" "hinge at the hips" there's loads of information on it. Essentially you're achieving ROM by rounding your back and not through your hamstrings, you my be surprised by your actual hamstring flexibility. If you're following Foundation, MN:IM 2 is excellent (I mean really excellent once you get the form down) for improving hamstring strength and flexibility.

noybrw said:

Yes you are right. When doing the stretch my back is not straight, and my chin is up by my thighs! Now that you and I realize this, why is this happening? Is this a result of limited flexibility in my back? And how do I resolve this? 

You resolve it by first sitting down with an anterior pelvic tilt and then lean foward while keeping your lower back straight.

Murray Truelove said:

Google "toe touch" "hinge at the hips" there's loads of information on it. Essentially you're achieving ROM by rounding your back and not through your hamstrings, you my be surprised by your actual hamstring flexibility. If you're following Foundation, MN:IM 2 is excellent (I mean really excellent once you get the form down) for improving hamstring strength and flexibility.

MN/PE2>iM is a great exercise, but for someone who is already flexing heavily at their spine and lacking hip flexion ROM I don't think it's a great prescription. What the OP needs is to learn how to flex at his hips first before introducing that exercise.

MN/PE1>iM or a bent leg hamstring stretch (where he bent his legs to allow proper hip flexion and then worked on straightening them while keeping his torso pulled to his thighs to maintain hip flexion and not allow himself to go into excessive spinal flexion) would be better choices at this point IMO.

Keegan said:

MN/PE2>iM is a great exercise, but for someone who is already flexing heavily at their spine and lacking hip flexion ROM I don't think it's a great prescription. What the OP needs is to learn how to flex at his hips first before introducing that exercise.

MN/PE1>iM or a bent leg hamstring stretch (where he bent his legs to allow proper hip flexion and then worked on straightening them while keeping his torso pulled to his thighs to maintain hip flexion and not allow himself to go into excessive spinal flexion) would be better choices at this point IMO.

That's a very good point, MN IM:2 might be too advanced. When I started Foundation I made a lot of progress by sitting on the edge of a chair, bringing my chest towards my knees and hugging behind my legs, however my starting hamstring flexibility was very poor. 

That sounds like a good beginner stretch for someone with poor hip flexion ROM like noybrw.