Manna Wall Slide

I am at 5x5, however a little under hip height.

 

Should I return to Shoulder Extension Pull or Statics?

 

Those exercises are great --- however they do not provide the singular tricep cramping of the Wall Slide.

 

Or do I persist through a cycle of Wall Slides, striving to reach hip height?

 

best,

j

 

 

If you have mastered previous elements but cannot do the wall slides to the correct height you should restart the cycle and strive to do only reps with full rom. Even if this means you have to go down in volume.

- inventor of manna wall slides

Also how are your weighted dislocates?

Daniel-

Thank you for your response. Perhaps I was unclear. I am 'striving' to reach hip-height. I can perform 5x5 consistently to about an inch or so under torso parallel to floor (hips shoulder height).

Can you be more specific on your question regarding dislocates?

best,

jason

Also Daniel, thanks for responding.

Film a video if the slide. I would say it's probably a case of you not retracting fully and keeping the shoulders rolled forward. I learned this to be critical to overcome. Which is actually why I started this drill.

Daniel Burnham said:

- inventor of manna wall slides

Love it! Can't wait to get to these!

So you're IN Foundation? Such class. 

Daniel Burnham said:

- inventor of manna wall slides

SUBTLETY!

I'd surely be bragging too, had I invented those.

Lol. Can't wait to master these myself . Hopefully things are easier the second time around.

Daniel Burnham said:

I would say it's probably a case of you not retracting fully and keeping the shoulders rolled forward. I learned this to be critical to overcome. 

 

Im nowhere near this exercise but it doesn't hurt to prepare. I don't really understand if you're saying that the shoulders should OR should not be rolled forward. Can you please clarify which is correct? =)

Thank you!

Retract. Do not allow them to roll forward.

Does shoulders rolled forward mean protraction or internal rotation?

B1214N said:

Does shoulders rolled forward mean protraction or internal rotation?

Both. But protraction is the key thing to fight against.

Hello-

 

The follow-up: I filmed my Wall Slide efforts, and Daniel was kind enough to indicate I'm probably missing a piece of active shoulder extension.

I later filmed the IM's for the previous 2 exercises (SE11 and SE12), and my IM efforts were not 100% same as the athlete in the video --- my hips were shoulder height in both, though knees were not quite over ankles. This is a good clue for where to start.

 

The only other exercise that feels like the Manna Wall Slide is the Ag Walk --- that specific cramp at the top of the tricep while pressing behind.

 

So my first plan of attack is to start at week 9 for SE11, and if successful by week 11, move to week 9 of SE12.

 

thanks-

 

jason

Ag walks can definitely help but most people do them incorrectly with the hands making too large of steps. Also you should not use Ag walks as the primary method to train manna. I used them in pommel horse prep and found them to be helpful but remember to focus on the extension drills.

Be careful and deliberate about the shoulder extension on the previous iM's. Increase depth and time slowly and seperately for the best healthy results. I recently took them too far after my shoulder surgery and am having to take some more time off after stressing the labrum. Of course this is due to my surgery and stupidity rather than the exercise but just know there is a decent arount of stress here that should be built up slowly.

Hi Daniel-

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, and I'm sorry to hear about your shoulder aggravation.

 

Injuries can be great teachers, but usually only in hindsight. I broke my foot pretty bad 2 years ago (not training), and was reminded to be patient last week when I did the shoulder extension pulls/statics --- for whatever reason I couldn't put pressure on my heel, and had to use an Ab-Mat as cushion.

 

My thought on comparing sensations of Ag Walks (and also Swinging Dips Forward?) to Manna Wall Slides is that the former build active flexibility, while the shoulder extension pulls and statics build passive flexibility. The Manna Wall Slides appears to require active flexibility, and the sensations were quite different between the IMs.

 

I am committed to spending the next 8 weeks (at least) on those IMs before revisiting the Manna Wall Slides, and additional Middle Split Hold work can't hurt.

 

best,

j 

Daniel Burnham said:

Ag walks can definitely help but most people do them incorrectly with the hands making too large of steps. Also you should not use Ag walks as the primary method to train manna. I used them in pommel horse prep and found them to be helpful but remember to focus on the extension drills.

Be careful and deliberate about the shoulder extension on the previous iM's. Increase depth and time slowly and seperately for the best healthy results. I recently took them too far after my shoulder surgery and am having to take some more time off after stressing the labrum. Of course this is due to my surgery and stupidity rather than the exercise but just know there is a decent arount of stress here that should be built up slowly.

Not to hijack anything Jason; I'm also working these at the moment and wanted to say thanks Daniel for the tidbits. If you've got time to share any more details and subtleties on this drill, would be very appreciated

Daniel Burnham said:

... I recently took them too far after my shoulder surgery and am having to take some more time off after stressing the labrum. Of course this is due to my surgery and stupidity rather than the exercise ...

If you keep this up Daniel, you are going to be the first recipient of the GB Slow Learner of the Year award.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach Sommer said:

If you keep this up Daniel, you are going to be the first recipient of the GB Slow Learner of the Year award.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Ha. No doubt. Trying to learn my lesson. Through I am a bit surprised I would be the first recipient. I figured Natterman might have earned that award long ago .

Yea Natterman should have that trophy

I my self are just now getting my (year long) shoulder problem under control and it´s such freedom to be able to do things that I haven´t done for a long time. It´s very tempting to do harder stuff but I´m so scared to get hurt again. The other day I did a hard work out and the day after I could feel signs agian. Now I feel ok though but it is hard to know where that border is....

I know that for my golfers elbow doing the full 12 week cycle on the 5 rep template has been perfect to build up connective tissue necesary to move on progressions upto the ones where load jumps in bigger increments...it helps me avoid sliding backwards. im looking for that sweet spot with straight arm work and hip mobility(hip flexion/ external rotation still gives me some bit of pain) but not like before.

what have you been doing for your shoulder Mats?

Daniel Burnham said:

Trying to learn my lesson...

 

Daniel-

 

Do you have the luxury of having someone else to help you with programming, or at least eyeball your weekly planning (I assume it's beyond the F series)?

 

Sometimes it takes someone else to say, "Hey, for a rehab phase, you have too much volume/intensity," or, "I would reconsider this exercise selection."

 

Also, my own 'lessons' tended to repeat over and over until I got the message. The bad news is that each time they repeated, they got louder --- that is, more painful --- until I took the hint.

 

I had a friend, a national-team-level competitive gymnast, who had shoulder labral repair in his late 30s; he followed a gradual plan and returned to high-level performance acrobatics within 3 months. 

 

At this point he was not placing high-level ring strength demands on his shoulders as you might be, but I think his situation points out that with patience it's possible to return to a good level!

 

So best of luck with your continued recovery-

 

best-

jason

Keilani Gutierrez said:

what have you been doing for your shoulder Mats?

That's a very loooong story but to sum it up:

The last 2-3 months I have always warmed up my shoulders with:

All the iM's from HBP F1 and some from F2-F3

The whole band routine from R1

Done this http://www.massagetherapy.com/articles/index.php/article_id/812/Shoulder-Series-3%3A-Subscapularis-Tendinitis 6-7 days a week

Seen/seeing an Osteopath once a month.