RC progressions are working

I am on holidays and only have access to a hotel gym that has no pull up bar. So I decided to test the lat pull down machine as a substitute for RC PE6. When I was testing the weight I felt so strong that I kept adding weight. I went all the way up and lifted the whole stack, which was 110kg. Surprisingly the weight was moderately hard but well within my max. I only did one rep as I didn't want to fatigue myself for the bent arm hangs today.

When I use to train with weights I couldn't lift the whole stack. That was after 10 years of using a lat pull down machine. I also haven't done any Crossfit for the last three months.

So even though PE6 is frustrating and I can't get 5x36sec yet they are working wonders for my pulling strength. I guess trying to hold 95kg for 5x60 secs will make lat pull downs easy!

I left the pin at the bottom of the stack. Maybe I should have left a note "this was lifted by a beginner in Gymnastic strength. www.gymnasticbodies.com"

On my last deload week, I decided to test out my bench press for fun.  Ended up using 2x 60 pound dumbbells even though I haven't benched for 10~ months, and still on HBP/PE2.

So I guess HBP progressions are working too?

I know where you guys are coming from. RC pe6 has given me a rings muscle up and Improved my climbing dramatically. Hbp pe2 has given me almost a 1.5x bw bench press... I have never even been able to do a 1x bw bench....

Yeah, pe6 markedly improved my muscleups too. Such a simple thing

ausswe said:

Hbp pe2 has given me almost a 1.5x bw bench press... I have never even been able to do a 1x bw bench....

So you never bench pressed before or did very little bench press work before and all of a sudden you can do almost 1.5x BW just from doing basic push-ups?! I find that hard to believe. Maybe you aren't doing full ROM or you are bouncing the bar on the chest for momentum.

It would have been more believable if you were doing PPPs, weighted push-ups, or plyometric push-ups. If you really can do a proper almost 1.5x BW bench press then I'm sure it would not have been from HBP PE2, but from something else. Have you moved on to HBP PE3 and where are you at in the SPL progressions?

Brian, that doesnt seem too far from what i've seen from only recently moving passed hbp/pe1. never benched before and magically i can bench 130lbs. (im at 160lb right now) elbows locked and all. i gotta say though, it was super easier cheating letting my arms flare out, it was a lot more challenging doing it with external rotation, i only had 2 reps in me doing them like that.

Even with the form done in F1, those push-ups are still a joke compared to even a BW bench press. The resistance in a basic push-up is 60-70% body weight.

B1214N said:

Even with the form done in F1, those push-ups are still a joke compared to even a BW bench press. The resistance in a basic push-up is 60-70% body weight.

You're doing multiple sets and reps in the double digits for pushups.  Even if only 60-70% of bodyweight is lifted, that's not your max.  For example, if someone trains with bodyweight bench press, it doesn't mean that bodyweight bench press is their max

alan tseng said:

You're doing multiple sets and reps in the double digits for pushups.  Even if only 60-70% of bodyweight is lifted, that's not your max.  For example, if someone trains with bodyweight bench press, it doesn't mean that bodyweight bench press is their max

Yes, but he claims he can do almost 1.5x BW bench press. Doing more than 10 reps in a set doesn't build much strength if any since it is in the endurance range.

...instead of saying what he can't do, maybe asking a little about his background would shed some light as to how he can do it? #justsayin'

Keilani Gutierrez said:

...instead of saying what he can't do, maybe asking a little about his background would shed some light as to how he can do it? #justsayin'

I did if you read my first post. I'm saying it can't be from just HBP PE2.

exactly, he hasnt gotten back to you yet.

used to do typical gym body building type stuff very sporadically and not for that long. the best i got was an 80kg bench press at about 90 kilos. havent benched in ages and have done a lot of travel so didn't train much at all last year but as of the start of this year i have been doing foundation and handstand work and i am at week 5 spl pe5 and hbp pe2 week 10 ( i have been stuck in the last mini cycle for a while now always slightly improving form)

 i put 80 kg (i am 85 kg) on the bar and benched it for 8 reps without much effort definitely could have done more. i upped it to 100 kg and still managed that for several reps.  so i kept going and got to 120kg but it was getting hard so i stopped there as it was training day and i didnt want the bench to interfer.  maybe i could have gone a few kilos more im not sure but i just climb and do gst and i can tell you climbing doesnt do much of anything for pushing strength.  

even though i havent mastered hbp pe2 i am able to do a few reps and sets of hbp pe3 as well but not training it yet.  cant wait to see the strength gained from mastering hbp pe3.... omg.

Maybe it's the SPL PE5 (planche lean) that helped or the HBP PE3, but you haven't mastered HBP PE2 yet so the quality of those reps are questionable. I find it very hard to believe that not only can you almost bench press 1.5x BW from just doing push-ups, but you haven't even mastered them yet.

Is the HBP PE2 mastery a strength issue for you or something else like mobility? I don't think it can be endurance either since 5x15 isn't very high endurance.

15 reps a set can be done in 30-60 seconds depending on rep tempo. This is ideal for hypertrophy and strength gains. There is still a carryover from having good strength in that Time under tension and getting a one rep max. Ausswe may have more slow twitch fibres in his pressing muscles so this could be his ideal rep range and consequently the bench press improved.

There is a lot more going on with this program and all links of the kinetic chain are being trained. How do we know that it wasn't a weak rear shoulder that was unstable and holding the bench press back.

How did I lift more isotonically with a lat pull down when I have been doing an isometric hold at the inner range for the last 3 months? I was surprised and cannot fully explain the carryover. The only thing I can think of is that I am training my whole body the right way.

I am sure when Coaches athletes could Jerk 1.5 time body weight the Olympic weightlifting coaches thought they were doing something else other than gymnastics. Why did the power lifters get worked up over Coach saying his athletes can Deadlift so much without training?

Rather than getting stuck into each other and arguing about whether we did lift a certain amount, we should be congratulating each other on our achievements.

I apologize if I offended anyone. I meant no ill will when I voiced my thoughts. I just found it hard to believe for ausswe's case while everyone else's was believable. I wanted to tell him that it might have been from other things than just HBP PE2 that increased his bench to almost 1.5x BW. Either way I congratulate him and everyone else here for their progress and transfer to other exercises.

Doesn't hurt to have proof though. Would be interested in seeing a video of pic. In my experience the internet adds 5-10kg to all your lifts and 5-10s on to isometrics. Not accusing anyone but it would be cool to have a thread full of this evidence so there could be no question from the outside world.

My chest has always been quite strong but my triceps and anterior deltoids incredibly weak. I've only just started spl pe 5 so it may have helped a small amount but I don't think so as it's only been about 1 week I've been doing them. The spl progresses in General could have contributed though with all the scapula work. Gst has made my arms and shoulders grow quite a bit though and I always feel my shoulders burning in hbp pe 2 and my triceps seem to have considerably more power. I don't know why I can't get mastery of hbp pe2. It seems to vary as to what gives way first my shoulders or triceps. Generally shoulders but some times triceps. I also use 10lb weight for the Im instead of 5 which could be why it is taking so long. I don't screw around with rest either.... I do my push ups jump up quickly as I can and instantly do the Im then jump down and start push ups as fast as possible to limit rest. My elbows are tucked close and don't flair at all as well. If I flare them even a little bit I could probably achieve mastery but I'd just be cheating myself. I've been stuck on pe2 for months now and it is frustrating to say the least.... Some times I feel like I need to go back a cycle and then other times I feel like I can go harder. Right ow I have almost thrown the sets and reps scheme out for this exercise and I am just trying to max out on every set this week to see if that will help as nothing else has so far.

ausswe said:

Some times I feel like I need to go back a cycle and then other times I feel like I can go harder. Right ow I have almost thrown the sets and reps scheme out for this exercise and I am just trying to max out on every set this week to see if that will help as nothing else has so far.

Perhaps simply changing the way you train pushups might help for awhile.  Some of my best gains in terms of pushup numbers have occurred when I used a pyramid setup.  Do 1 pushup, hold the top position for five or so seconds, then do 2 pushups, hold, 3 pushups, etc etc.  This adds a lot of volume, especially as you get higher and higher, and it helps build that mental toughness.  "Only three more than I get a quick break, I can do three more."

If you start at 1 and make it to 12, you do 78 total pushups, which is more than the 75 you need for mastery.  If nothing else, it spices up your routine, and it might be the new stimulus that gets your muscles over the hump.

Cheers for the idea. If nothing happens this cycle I'll give it a go

Not going to lie, a 1.5x BW bench from HBP/PE2 makes me quite skeptical as well. But there is really no benefit to lying so if you are telling the truth, take that as a huge accomplishment and something to be very proud of. A 1.5x BW bench is still impressive even if you trained specifically with weights to achieve it. So getting it while not training it is only more impressive. 

Destiny said:

Not going to lie, a 1.5x BW bench from HBP/PE2 makes me quite skeptical as well. But there is really no benefit to lying so if you are telling the truth, take that as a huge accomplishment and something to be very proud of. A 1.5x BW bench is still impressive even if you trained specifically with weights to achieve it. So getting it while not training it is only more impressive. 

It could be a combination of RC, HBP (and the mobility exercises) put together. It could also be due to the connective tissue strength, etc., as opposed to the mostly muscle strength that a conventional  bench press develops.