About 10 days in... a couple questions, complaints

Ok I was going to write a complete summary of all my workouts since I started but I'll just post an abridged version then some questions/concerns.

I'm doing the 4 day a week routine.

Monday June 9 Day 1

**COC grip work

FLPE1 = mastery

sPLPE1 = mastery

HBPPE1 = mastery

RCPE1 = 15/15/12/12/12 ... had trouble just learning how to do this exercise properly... and I think doing the 1st couple sets improperly beat my shoulders down.

Tuesday Day 2

MNPE1 = mastery

SLPE1 - mastery

SLSPE1 - mastery

then followed with some other strength and grip work

Wednesday Day 3

Ido Portals Floreio 1 routine

Handstand practice

Wrist and forearm work

Long stretch

Thursday Day4

FLPE2 = mastery** see note 1 at end

sPLPE2 = mastery

HBPPE2 = mastery

RCPE2 = 15/15/15/12/11** Ironically the one exercise is the one of the one where the main goal is one that I have been able to do for at least 7 years.

Legless rope climb

Bag throw

Friday Day 5

COC grip work

MNPE2 = mastery ** see note 1

SLPE2 - 4X24** see note 2 at end

SLSPE2 - mastery

weightlifting strength routine

Saturday Day 6

Seriously intense 1 hour strength endurance routine

Sunday Day 7

Ido Portals Floreio 1 routine

Monday Day 8

**COC grip work

FLPE3 = mastery

sPLPE3 = mastery

HBPPE3 = I've done these before and know they can be a little tough especially on the wrists so I just started at the week 10 level 4X10r

RCPE1 = 15/15/15/12/12

Tuesday Day 9

MNPE3 = Substituted hanging leg lifts strict toes to the bar (harder anyway) see note

SLPE2 = 4X24 see note 2

SLSPE3 = mastery

Ok.... so I definitely like the program so far....however!!!!

Note #1 The bent hollow body rocks for 5 sets of 60. Great workout, got a sweet ab pump. However, I wish I had a little warning that 300 rocks was going to shred the skin off of my coccyx by the end. Not a lot of pleasure on the after affect!!!

Flash forward to MNPE2... well even though this was lower reps the damage was already there... This further ripped my tailbone to hell... it really is pretty bad.

As for today MNPE3 V-ups, well my self abuse was over and I was not doing these... I do V-ups all the time anyway and this would have been effortless for me compared to PE1 and 2 so I just substituted the harder HLL instead.

Note #2 Arch body rocks. I don't ever see me doing 5 sets of 60 on this. (I'll try to keep this PG). I don't know how most gymnasts are built...perhaps this is an exercise more suited for younger kids... but I'm a full grown adult... some parts of me are grown more then average (thank you).... so if you can tell me how to get through this exercise for that many reps without crushing my junk to what may be an unusable state then I'm all ears. Pushing to the side and other adjustments did not work for me!! If not I'll be bypassing this soon.

Plus based on my experience PE3 is going to be a much easier exercise....which will bring me to my first question below

A couple questions I do have...

#1 I think I've seen this mentioned here... many of these 'progressions' don't always seem to be progressions (at least not for me). Perhaps its because of different training I've already done in the past but these exercises don't always get harder... actually some the higher ones are much easier than the lower ones. My only thought on this is that maybe the programmed is designed for someone with zero experience and then they may not see it that way....

#2 I'll use the Rope climb for this example... I can already do a rope climb. Start on my ass... climb up and down 25' with no legs... but I'm stuck on PE1.... is this routine leading to something else beyond a rope climb?

#3 Some of the reps are not always clear. For example on SLSPE3 it says 5 sets of 10 reps. Now when we train if we say ten reps and there are two separate sides to an exercise then that means 10 each side. Not sure if that is what is intended here or now... some of the progressions specifically say 5 or 10 (each side) and some just say 10 reps....

I know there was probably more but that is all I can think of right now.

Thanks for any advice... now I have to go lotion up my a**.

Greetings, and welcome.  First off, if hollow body rocks are shredding your coccyx you're probably not doing them with full posterior pelvic tilt.  It should be a smooth roll, not a bumping.  Secondly, they don't follow a linear progression because sometimes taking an easier exercise and really focusing on the technique and minor adjustments makes it a lot harder and sometimes you just need to build endurance and tendon strength to be able to minimize risk of injury later on.  I wouldn't skip versions you think are easier, as my guess would be that your range of motion for MNPE3 may not be as good as you think.  Maybe it is, in which case please move on.  Remember the mobility components go with the strength components.  another point, this is not about a journey to a "final" destination.  I too can do legless rope climbs, but yet have struggled and gained much from doing many of the preceding exercises.  Think of it as a training program, not as a means to an end (like i'm just doing these exercises to get to a hollow back press).  Do what you're doing and mix in other stuff if the work seems easy.  You will eventually settle out after the early gains in elements where you will need to put in good training to make progress.  these may not be the glamorous "end position" but you will get much out of them and they will seek out and destroy your asymmetries and your weaknesses.  that is the goal after all.  Enjoy the process, and you will make much progress.  If always thinking of the end goal you will grow complacent and you will quit and move to another program, where the same process will occur.  Enjoy, and happy training!

Regarding your notes and questions:

Note #1 - What kind of surface are you doing the rocks on? I've never experienced any skin getting ripped, or any other damage for that matter. (I do mine on a yoga mat that is on top of a carpeted floor, the carpet isn't super soft, but it isn't exactly a hard surface either)

Note #2 - I'm not on that element yet, so I can't really give you any advice... I do know that other members have experienced the same issues, although I don't specifically recall their solutions. The search function is your friend.

Q #1 - Depending on your individual strengths and weaknesses, it is possible that some of the higher level elements may be easier than the lower level ones, especially considering the number of reps required for certain elements. Personally, I've found the program to be pretty progressive. Mobility issues aside, each element has been harder than the previous one (again that is simply my personal experience). Anyway, Foundation is about addressing your weaknesses, correcting movement deficiencies, preventing injuries, and building... a foundation... So if you are weak in some areas and stronger in others, the weaknesses need to be corrected, and that is exactly what Foundation does. This leads into the answer to your second question.

Q #2 - Unfortunately, your ability to do a rope climb isn't really relevant. If you can't complete the necessary pre-req's, then you are not really ready to be doing rope climbs as a regular part of your training. The progressions for RC strengthen the connective tissue so that RC can be worked in the safest and most beneficial way (when the time comes), in addition to building the necessary strength and mobility. I can also do rope climbs, but since starting Foundation I haven't done them, instead I've been putting all my effort into mastering the necessary pre-req's. As another example, I can "do" dips already, but I'm stuck at HBP PE2 - and haven't worked dips since starting Foundation either.

*Note: it is ok to "play" with higher level elements after completing the scheduled training for the day. However, this is not to be structured training. It's important to be smart with this, personally, I don't usually experiment with elements that are more than 2-3 ahead of what I'm currently working on.

Q #3 - A lot of the elements where the number of reps are in question have been discussed in other topics, again the search function is your friend here.

I hope that helps, glad your liking the program.

- Cody

You've got a lot of answers already so I'll just post briefly.

A lot of the progressions seem unusual in there order (dips after pseudo planche push ups) but I think this supposed to address the bigger picture (vertical pushing after horizontal pushing). If nothing else it works even if it isn't understood.

Regarding note #2; I moved on from these petty early, just hurt my junk too much. I got compression shorts and folded up a yoga mat, still damn uncomfortable. As an act of attrition I keep 3x60s of PE:1 as my warm up. This as been the only time I've skipped a head.

I think you'll find that skipping arch body rocks may seriously impede you progress with the later HBP elements. However, I'm not going to go into detail, as this is not the appropriate forum.

I've got F4 so I think I know what you're talking about.

I should point out I got to 4x48 before moving on. I just got to a point where it was really putting me off my work out.

Thanks for the replies guys.

@MT Nodic. The only reason I skipped MNPE3 is because I simply can't do that right now the way my tailbone is ripped up. V-ups are easy for me so I didn't concern myself about it.. I still did the MNPE3m so that part wasn't skipped. I know for many people doing this routine that mobility may be a big issue for them but I am really flexible and don't see any issues with anything in F1.

I understand that its not about the 'end goal' so to speak... just a little disheartening when one of the exercises that I can actually do already is the only one I am stuck on the first PE .... I know from experience that the following one will be easier for me so no big deal.

@codymc. I'm doing this on a 3/4" think gym mat... specifically this

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002OTC1PW/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

As for your answer to question 2 well... sorry, but I couldn't disagree more. I've climbed a rope countless times with no issues and I'm certainly not going to stop now. I can assure that 50% of a rope climb is grip and hand strength with I have lots of. While I am sure I will benefit from the progressions in other respects I will continue to do rope climbs.

I'd like to get into this more but I have a really busy work day and I need to leave on time for once, LOL.... I'll be back at the end of the day.

For the bent hollow body rocks - those look fairly friendly for doing the rocks on. I haven't ever done them on a similar surface, so I can't say much more beyond that. Perhaps, like MT Nordic suggested, you don't have full PPT when doing these. Lack of full PPT will cause the rocks to be bumpy rather than smooth. If your rocks are indeed smooth, you may need to find a different surface to do these on. Or get a yoga mat.

- Cody

are you doing them naked? I've done rocks on that surface with no problems.

Also the program is modular, not linear. It prepares the body from all the angles first before combining everything into specific elements.

Well, not sure what would have caused it.... all I know is the current result currently sucks!!

Fortunately I got through all the sets and wont have to worry about it right now.

I'll revisit these (in smaller doses) as soon as I'm healed up and see if I can get it figured out.

meras said:

are you doing them naked? I've done rocks on that surface with no problems.

 

Also the program is modular, not linear. It prepares the body from all the angles first before combining everything into specific elements.

I get the modular thing... just couldn't believe that on a move that I can already do I had trouble with the first progression.

No big deal... I'll get through it within the next couple sessions.

I used to get some major burns on my tailbone too. Put sports tape on the burn, and you should be able to work without issues. You cab easily leave the tape on for days, a bit gross perhaps, but works like a charm. Eventually you'll get used to the stress and won't need the tape anymore.

For me the addition of holding a broomstick in hollow rocks helped me figure out the whole smooth rock thing. Still not totally sure why it works, but it does

Jon Douglas said:

For me the addition of holding a broomstick in hollow rocks helped me figure out the whole smooth rock thing. Still not totally sure why it works, but it does

I'll keep that in mind next time I try. Thanks.

Ravn said:

I used to get some major burns on my tailbone too. Put sports tape on the burn, and you should be able to work without issues. You cab easily leave the tape on for days, a bit gross perhaps, but works like a charm. Eventually you'll get used to the stress and won't need the tape anymore.

Well, glad to hear its not just me... DAYS!!... yes, that's gross, Dude.

I've been bandaging mine up and changing about 3-4 times a day... I have a big infection phobia!!

Re rope climbing, no reason not to do it, its very productive. Just get your lower progression work done first, because clearly there is something lacking in mobility or activation if you are struggling with a much easier exercise. You could even regard your rope climb time or stroke number per lap as a benchmark test and watch it improve as you work through that stream. Leaving it alone for a while can help as you'll be able to re approach it with a clean slate in terms of technique, stroke length, activation, but especially while working your way up I'd rather have you add rope climbs afterwards than just do hinge rows. Strong is strong, as long as attention goes where its needed first

But yknow, if on a given day you only have time for one, work the one you're not as good at because the return on time and recovery resources invested is better

Murray Truelove said:

You've got a lot of answers already so I'll just post briefly.

A lot of the progressions seem unusual in there order (dips after pseudo planche push ups) but I think this supposed to address the bigger picture (vertical pushing after horizontal pushing). If nothing else it works even if it isn't understood.

Regarding note #2; I moved on from these petty early, just hurt my junk too much. I got compression shorts and folded up a yoga mat, still damn uncomfortable. As an act of attrition I keep 3x60s of PE:1 as my warm up. This as been the only time I've skipped a head.

I haven't worried myself too much about this pain in the "you know what I mean" issue, since I'm still fighting ABH (9 months so far), but I cannot imagine that we've exhausted all options of self-preservation here.

I might get something like this to foot the bill, http://www.amazon.com/NuttyBuddy-Protective-Cup-Jock-Combo/dp/B008B54CSW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403150284&sr=8-1&keywords=nutty+and+jock

or perhaps this? http://www.amazon.com/Shock-Doctor-Ultra-Supporter-Carbon/dp/B00181JJMU/ref=pd_sim_sg_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0969YN0N9JW460VXY17J

There's gotta be a way to get around this issue. The obstacle is usually the way.

@Jon Douglas... well, I do so many different things in my training and it is certainly not possible to do everything all the time. There are times when the rope can get neglected for some time... but the reason I wouldn't abandon it completely for too long a period is that like I mentioned above about the grip and hand strength. Even with all the other grip work I do the rope can be about the cruelest to the hands. If you stay away too long then the longer it takes to get used to all that pressure from hanging/pulling tearing into your hands. I'm not built anything like a gymnast... I'm 6'1" and 210-215#'s. (Lower if I'm more mindful of my eating). So ideally, although not usually the case I would like to do at least a few climbs a week just to keep the hands used to it.

I definitely agree with you about how the lower progressions can build up weaknesses... strengthen tendons and everything else necessary to do safer more productive movements. So I will continue through them. I think one of the biggest issues with me on RCPE1 is for some reason getting the technique right was giving me a problem and I'm just fighting myself and making it harder then it actually is.

Its on the schedule for today so I will see how it goes.

@Atticus, thanks for the links... I may try one of those... I have Prime shipping with Amazon. Can have it tomorrow for just $4 extra!

It just occurred to me how funny it is, that the guys with the biggest cojones are the ones to first wimp out of ABR!   

Ravn said:

It just occurredreed me how funny it is, that the guys with the biggest cojones are the ones to first wimp out of ABR!

Why do you think I pushed to test through them as quickly as I could?!

Ok, back to pg-13

Nice, LOL

My next step is going to be to drill a hole through the floor, strip down and free the beast!

That'll get me through it!!

andydgh said:

Nice, LOL

My next step is going to be to drill a hole through the floor, strip down and free the beast!

That'll get me through it!!

Ok, go ahead and post this in the equipment forum 

LateStarter@46 said:

Hahahahahahhah!!!!

Ravn said:

Ok, go ahead and post this in the equipment forum 

I do you one better.... I'll post a video

I reckon I have solved the arch body 'discomfort' problem for the side lever progression 2:

In the video he doesn't lift up that far at the back - it looks like he is only lifting his upper body down to just past the belly button sort of area. If you do this and make your reps controlled rocks rather wild swings then it shouldn't be a problem. Combine this with appropriate underwear and you should be good to go!