High volume to overcome plateau

I was thinking maybe someone might benefit from this technique. Personally GTG does not work for me and just cycling through week 5 to 8 or 9 to 12 not always helping.

But this high volume routine work every time and not just for gymnastics. I used it for every exercise I needed relatively high number of reps and was stuck. It helped every time. Recently I used it to overcome RC PE4 plateau. It is definitely not my invention. Once for week is generally is enough for me, but if you have fast recovery you can do it x2 per week, x3 is probably not a good idea but you are welcome to try.

Basically the idea is to take the number of reps you need to execute (50 total, 5x10 for RC PE4) multiply by 2. That would be the number of total reps you have to perform. Then do it every minute set number of reps until you get your total (100), 25x4, or 20x5. Something you know you can do without failure. If you did 25x4 and did not fail even once then next time you are trying to do 20x5. If at some point you fail to do 5 reps then you continue working lower number per set until you do your 100 total. And so on.

In my case once I was able to do 14x7 I passed RC PE4 mastery. I did not do mibility every minute, instead I did it every 2-3 minutes. But moblity was not a problem for me with that exercise, strength was.

Hopefully it helps someone. Just something to try if you are stuck for a long time and cycling through weeks progression does not feel like anything is changing.

I did 10x10 to help with the pushups.

I do this less structured, based on how I feel. I do find it works well too. Sometimes its just putting more good sets in, however short.

What I've been doing that helped me finally get up close to mastery on RC/PE3 was occasionally on non RC days I would do 40 reps in as fast as possible. I also do this with push ups although my push up progress has been unusually terrible. Always get stuck on 4x12. Last summer I could do 60 reps straight. Not as good form but still no doubt I could have done 4x12 with the IM as rest. I think I'm just going to try and add 2 reps per workout starting from a week I can handle.

I like this idea think I'll give it a try. I'll get back and let you know how it worked.

I have a question. On your foundation days, you replace the normal rep scheme with this? Or do you do this on a  separate day in addition to your normal exercise? Thank you.

Sorry, you're saying for example that if you need to do 5x60r of FL rocks, then you can do double of 300 reps (5x60) split in easy sets, one set per minute?

Meaning that you could do 40x15r or 20x30r, with a minute pause between sets... correct?

Wouldn't this take an enormous amount of time to complete the whole schedule?

If you're doing just FL+sPL+HBP+RC you could easily go beyond 1.5h.

 

Just checking if I'm getting it wrong.

Maolu,

 

I think your idea of reps is correct. But you only use it for one element you are having a particularly difficult time breaking through. Not all of the elements.

Crackalackahacka said:

...element you are having a particularly difficult time breaking through. Not all of the elements.

You know what I was about to reply, don't you?

Jokes apart, yep, makes sense.

Still would be quite tedious for 60 reps sets.

 

I'm currently experimenting with a sightly different approach, using previous progressions as fillers.

So, you have to do 5x10 of PE4, but you can only do 10,10,8,8,5.

This means you're short of mastery of a factor of 0,0,2,2,5.

Instead of stopping the set when you fail, you fill the remaining part with lower progression reps, where it's more likely you can still do something AND keep good form.

 

In this example it would mean

10 PE4

10 PE4

8 PE4 + 2 PE3

8 PE4 + 2 PE3

5 PE4 + 5 PE3

 

This lets you train the expected volume (instead of overshooting it), keep the mobility at the same pace and not spending more time overall.

Then gradually you'd substitute the previous progression reps with the actual ones.

 

I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks for the info, always good to see what other people are doing!

Crackalackahacka said:

I have a question. On your foundation days, you replace the normal rep scheme with this? Or do you do this on a separate day in addition to your normal exercise? Thank you.

I was doing it instead of F1 RC exercise and trying mastery every 2 weeks to see if there was any progress.

maolu said:

Sorry, you're saying for example that if you need to do 5x60r of FL rocks, then you can do double of 300 reps (5x60) split in easy sets, one set per minute?

Meaning that you could do 40x15r or 20x30r, with a minute pause between sets... correct?

Wouldn't this take an enormous amount of time to complete the whole schedule?

If you're doing just FL+sPL+HBP+RC you could easily go beyond 1.5h.

Just checking if I'm getting it wrong.

I have never tried using this approach for anything higher than 100 reps. I think it might work although doing 600 reps is no fun. Maybe 450 reps will be enough. If I am stuck at hollow rocks I will give it a try. I would probably do one set per minute that is including rest which probably will be around 15-20 sec, one minute rest sounds too long for this exercise. So assuming you are doing 20x30 it will take exactly 20 min. But if I end up withtoo little rest then I might do one set every 90 sec.

Hopefully that helps!

I tried this today with RC/PE1, with very little rest on the mobility.

 

I did 6x10 and 8x5, making it to 100 reps. This was the most I'd ever done and am even developing callouses on my palms! 

 

Will see whether this takes me to mastery.

~Atticus said:

I tried this today with RC/PE1, with very little rest on the mobility.

 

I did 6x10 and 8x5, making it to 100 reps. This was the most I'd ever done and am even developing callouses on my palms! 

 

Will see whether this takes me to mastery.

Please keep us posted. My approach was different though. It was more building strength endurance oriented without getting exhausted during first few sets. It doesn't matter how easy first sets feel. Real work starts during last few sets. If you have to reduce number of reps per set by more than just 1-2 to complete all 100 you have gone too far.  The main goal was always to try to keep same number of reps in all sets. So in your case you might be better off trying  14x7. If you pass then next time you are trying 13x8 and advance to 12x9 only after you can do 8 reps in all sets. But my feeling is thar once you can do 13x8 you should have no problem passing mastery.

RF_Guy said:

Please keep us posted. My approach was different though. It was more building strength endurance oriented without getting exhausted during first few sets. It doesn't matter how easy first sets feel. Real work starts during last few sets. If you have to reduce number of reps per set by more than just 1-2 to complete all 100 you have gone too far.  The main goal was always to try to keep same number of reps in all sets. So in your case you might be better off trying  14x7. If you pass then next time you are trying 13x8 and advance to 12x9 only after you can do 8 reps in all sets. But my feeling is thar once you can do 13x8 you should have no problem passing mastery.

 

Good news.

 

Today I mastered FL/PE2 after realizing that I was gonna be at 4x48 for a little bit longer than I'd have liked.

 

So, 10 days ago, I decided to go for volume, and first did 15x24, then 20x24 bHBR then last week I did 15x30 (2 days) and today was the first time this week to do bHBR and I just went for mastery and did 4x60 and the last set I did 1x100. (Just to rub it in!)

 

I'm using the same strategy (i.e. volume) for RC/PE1, HBP/PE2, and SL/PE1.

 

Will keep you posted but I'm seeing some progress on all three fronts.

~Atticus said:

Good news.

 

Today I mastered FL/PE2 after realizing that I was gonna be at 4x48 for a little bit longer than I'd have liked.

 

So, 10 days ago, I decided to go for volume, and first did 15x24, then 20x24 bHBR then last week I did 15x30 (2 days) and today was the first time this week to do bHBR and I just went for mastery and did 4x60 and the last set I did 1x100. (Just to rub it in!)

 

I'm using the same strategy (i.e. volume) for RC/PE1, HBP/PE2, and SL/PE1.

 

Will keep you posted but I'm seeing some progress on all three fronts.

Awesome! I am glad that it worked for you. I am currently using this for ABH. I was stuck on it since days one of F1. Currenetly trying to pass 23x20 but failed last 5 min so will have to try it again. 450 total seems like a good range for exercises with 300 reps/sec total.    x2 600 reps is way too much volume for those.

maolu said:

You know what I was about to reply, don't you?

Jokes apart, yep, makes sense.

Still would be quite tedious for 60 reps sets.

I'm currently experimenting with a sightly different approach, using previous progressions as fillers.

So, you have to do 5x10 of PE4, but you can only do 10,10,8,8,5.

This means you're short of mastery of a factor of 0,0,2,2,5.

Instead of stopping the set when you fail, you fill the remaining part with lower progression reps, where it's more likely you can still do something AND keep good form.

In this example it would mean

10 PE4

10 PE4

8 PE4 + 2 PE3

8 PE4 + 2 PE3

5 PE4 + 5 PE3

This lets you train the expected volume (instead of overshooting it), keep the mobility at the same pace and not spending more time overall.

Then gradually you'd substitute the previous progression reps with the actual ones.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks for the info, always good to see what other people are doing!

So basically mechanical drop sets, interesting idea. Let us know how that works out for you.

maolu said:

You know what I was about to reply, don't you?

Jokes apart, yep, makes sense.

Still would be quite tedious for 60 reps sets.

 

I'm currently experimenting with a sightly different approach, using previous progressions as fillers.

So, you have to do 5x10 of PE4, but you can only do 10,10,8,8,5.

This means you're short of mastery of a factor of 0,0,2,2,5.

Instead of stopping the set when you fail, you fill the remaining part with lower progression reps, where it's more likely you can still do something AND keep good form.

 

In this example it would mean

10 PE4

10 PE4

8 PE4 + 2 PE3

8 PE4 + 2 PE3

5 PE4 + 5 PE3

 

This lets you train the expected volume (instead of overshooting it), keep the mobility at the same pace and not spending more time overall.

Then gradually you'd substitute the previous progression reps with the actual ones.

 

I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks for the info, always good to see what other people are doing!

This approach makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for sharing.

RC PE6? 450 seconds. I might try this schedule to break this dreaded exercise as I have many cycles left.

Mark Collins said:

RC PE6? 450 seconds. I might try this schedule to break this dreaded exercise as I have many cycles left.

I just started RC PE 6 as well. Week 6 currently and it was tough. If I fail week 7 I will join you. 

This sounds very similar to Coach Ethan Reeves density training. It's a fantastic, very proven training method.

Jay B. said:

This sounds very similar to Coach Ethan Reeves density training. It's a fantastic, very proven training method.

Thank you! I learned it such a long time ago that I did not even remember what the original source was. Now I know who to thank for it.

Hi.This approach sounds great I will try it too.  

This sounds very interesting. I've been plateauted on FL/PE2 for ages now so will give this a try.

 

I just can't get 4 x 48 so do you think I should try to do 384 reps ((4 x 48) x 2) or just go straight for the mastery reps of 600 ((5x60)x2)

 

Also, do you make each set a manageable amount like the deload amount or try to do as many as you can per set to minimise the amount of sets?

I'd keep the reps on the lower side. An amount u can do properly with good form before your form fails.

Quite a few people seem to be jumping on this approach, which is fine, but please don't fall into the trap of running completely different programming to reach a secondary goal that you think will enable you to hit your original target plateau breaking strategies are occasionally a godsend, but don't let yourself get sidetracked or use it as an excuse to drop your reps unless and until you actually need to change something, as pointed out in the first post

Jon Douglas said:

Quite a few people seem to be jumping on this approach, which is fine, but please don't fall into the trap of running completely different programming to reach a secondary goal that you think will enable you to hit your original target plateau breaking strategies are occasionally a godsend, but don't let yourself get sidetracked or use it as an excuse to drop your reps unless and until you actually need to change something, as pointed out in the first post

I have to say I found interesting only the "mechanical drop set" as I was looking for a way to "fill in" the missing reps after technical failure.