PPP and Planche Leans

It seems like it would not be possible to master PPP (HBPr>PE3) until Planche Leans (sPL>PE5) is mastered. Is this correct?

Or is there an acceptable way to do PPP that does not have you returning to a Planche Lean position at the top? I thought I was near mastery until I looked more closely at the video and realized I was going from push-up position at top to a hands-near hips bottom position and returning to push-up position rather than starting and finishing in planche lean.

Please advise.

Thanks.

bso said:

It seems like it would not be possible to master PPP (HBPr>PE3) until Planche Leans (sPL>PE5) is mastered. Is this correct?

 

Or is there an acceptable way to do PPP that does not have you returning to a Planche Lean position at the top? I thought I was near mastery until I looked more closely at the video and realized I was going from push-up position at top to a hands-near hips bottom position and returning to push-up position rather than starting and finishing in planche lean.

 

Please advise.

 

Thanks.

I don't think you're alone in having this problem, and as far as I recall, most people who have posted the same issue regarding their PPP form hadn't adequately mastered the planche lean yet. It isn't really common as most people stall out at HBP/PE2 and therefore get to planche leans prior to PPP, but it does happen, and the recommendation I've mostly seen is to go and master planche leans in order to improve one's PPP. 

we only need wrists under the bottom of the sternum for mastery?  Sweet.  Should we keep trying to advance the lean after moving on to later progressions?  It seems like we will need a hands at hips to be able to do real sPL and HBP.

Zach Armijo said:

Try to get your lean at a MINIMUM to wrists under lower rib/bottom of sternum. This should be adequate enough to begin your PPPs to this point in the lean. For testing purposes, lower rib / bottom of sternum is what is expected.

 

 

That's very interesting!

5x10 PPPs with this level of lean looks a realistic goal for a beginner in F1 than the same with hands at the hips. Also looks to me more comparable to the next PEs in terms of difficulty.

Agree that the ultimate goal is 5x10 with hands at the hips, but still is important to know that you can move the next PE before...

At hands under the sternum I think I will get mastery today. I can get one set of 10 with hands at hip level. It will be nice to move on after so long on these. I will definitely keep these in my warm ups though.

Thanks guys!

So, to confirm, "mastery" is:

top position: hands below sternum at least

bottom position: hands at hips, chest to deck

bso said:

Thanks guys!

 

So, to confirm, "mastery" is:

top position: hands below sternum at least

bottom position: hands at hips, chest to deck

I think you should pick a distance and stick with it. The way you put it now makes it seem like your lean would change while you do a rep. The one thing I got from reading previous posts is that you should go up and down in as straight of a line as possible.

meras said:

I think you should pick a distance and stick with it. The way you put it now makes it seem like your lean would change while you do a rep. The one thing I got from reading previous posts is that you should go up and down in as straight of a line as possible.

Well yes and no. Yes you should pick a distance you can handle and stick with it. But the hips and head are always going to move somewhat in relation to the hands during the movement. The body must move in an arc, pivoting about the toes. You can see this quite clearly in the course video (look at Allen's head in relation to the edge of the screen in particular). This is why, IMHO, trying to perform these with your head against the wall is not a great idea. To summarise, I believe mastery is:

start at the top position: hands below sternum at least

descend with your body locked straight, toes pointed and in a fixed position on the floor

bottom position: wherever you end up having followed the above

reverse the descent until you arrive at the initial top position again.

I looked at the video and I stand corrected. Thanks!

KibboKift said:

Well yes and no. Yes you should pick a distance you can handle and stick with it. But the hips and head are always going to move somewhat in relation to the hands during the movement. The body must move in an arc, pivoting about the toes. You can see this quite clearly in the course video (look at Allen's head in relation to the edge of the screen in particular). This is why, IMHO, trying to perform these with your head against the wall is not a great idea. To summarise, I believe mastery is:

start at the top position: hands below sternum at least

descend with your body locked straight, toes pointed and in a fixed position on the floor

bottom position: wherever you end up having followed the above

reverse the descent until you arrive at the initial top position again.

Yes, and having the heels agains a wall ensures that they are indeed fixated. That can be a real eye opener.

Zach Armijo said:

Also remember to get your chest to the floor. Get the full ROM and be diligent in constantly increasing the lean. It will eventually catch up to you if you stick with the minimum. But it sounds like you are on the right track with hands by hips in the long run. 

I'm a little bit confused about this. If you see the video, the athlete isn't touching the floor with his chest but with his face and actually it makes sense to me if I think about keep the protraction as much as possible. If I touch the floor with my chest I loose a good amount of protraction and this is normal because of the way we are. So should we stick to the course vid and keep protraction but not touch with the chest the floor or we have to perform the exercise as you are saying? Thank you in advance!

Zach Armijo said:

You would do very well if you kept PPPs in your routine for a long time to come and refine them bit by bit. 

I'm doing this way and in my opinion it works very well, and I like the fact that as you progress in the other HBP elements and foundation in general you see good improvements in your PPPs as well.

Zach Armijo said:

You are right in sticking with the video. Chest to the floor is the same thing like hands by hips, it's not required for testing, but it will certainly not be a wasted feat to achieve. In the long run, you will want those extreme ROMs. You would do very well if you kept PPPs in your routine for a long time to come and refine them bit by bit. 

Ok thank you for the answer, makes perfect sense. So I'm ready this week to go for mastery! Super excited

Zach Armijo said:

You are right in sticking with the video. Chest to the floor is the same thing like hands by hips, it's not required for testing, but it will certainly not be a wasted feat to achieve. In the long run, you will want those extreme ROMs. You would do very well if you kept PPPs in your routine for a long time to come and refine them bit by bit. 

So how would you keep them in your routine...Only as a warm up set or would you have a special day for them to improve them ? Same question for planche leans?

Bottom of the sternum is incorrect.

Minimum standard for PPP is hands between the bottom of the ribcage and the hips.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Zach Armijo said:

I'm sorry for that misinformation Coach. In my mind, I associate bottom of sternum with my fingertips, which would place my wrists at the bottom of the ribcage. Apologies again.

Not a problem.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Would the maximum standard be hands level with hips?

ausswe said:

Would the maximum standard be hands level with hips?

Maximum standard for a planche lean would be having almost the same degree of lean as a full planche (would be the point just before your feet start to lift off). Supramaximal standard would be planche leans where your hands are behind your COM and the feet are anchored. Both of these are obviously beyond F4 level.