An epiphany on plateau breaking...

I'm sure this has been said before, but I'll chime in anyway.

After having been stuck at a whole slew of elements (for almost the same micocyles actually) for literally about 7 months, I slowly began to break through and master them one by one recently.

I applied the technique of simply trying to add at least 1 total rep to my workout each time. This helped to slowly inch my strength up.

But one thing I noticed that each time helped get me through the plateau was taking a look at my technique. Really getting in and analysing it and seeing where I could "save" energy in it. Because I saw that part of what I had to do was to become more effecient at the exercise, as well as make sure I'm doing it right (which incidentally are usually the same). I saw that a by product of powering through things was to just tense everything, and usually miss loading the correct muscles in the most effecient way.

So it wasn't just about simply trying to power my way towards another extra rep, but constantly, consciously being aware of and trying to be more effortless with my form (not the same as cheating to make it easier).

As an example: the big cue that had me master HBP/P2 pushups (after being stuck at 4x12r for months), was to actually engage and push from particular muscles of my back, which helped me to keep tension in the bottom portion of the movement and therefore not "bleed tourque" as Kelly Starrett would say. I saw that everytime I went down to the bottom part of the push-up, I was dumping the tension with a slight sag which would load up my tricepts even more, and was wearing them out very quickly. Instead I concentrated on hitting the bottom part of the movement with this slight tension in my upper back which stopped a loss of tention, and thereby took some of the unnecessary load off of the tricepts (I think anyway...!).

So, basically part of getting better at an exercise is not only powering and grinding through it, but also feeling how to do it with only the necessary tension in the correct places and not wasting energy with unnecessary tension. Everytime I've gone in and done this with exercises, I've broken through my plateaus.

As far as pushing through your back goes, you'll notice it a lot with pseudo planche pushups and korean dips.  I still can't wrap my head around the fact that something back there is doing some serious pushing work.  IDK what....

Bipocni said:

As far as pushing through your back goes, you'll notice it a lot with pseudo planche pushups and korean dips.  I still can't wrap my head around the fact that something back there is doing some serious pushing work.  IDK what....

For sure. After getting that cue about my back, Pseudo Planche push-ups have become better for me and I feel it there.

Although the primary resources in analysing things for me are to re-read the exercise notes, study the offical video as well as videos other people have posted on the same exercise... two other resources are very helpful to me:

• Becoming a Supple Leopard by Kelly Starrett. His ideas about bleeding torque and dumping force etc... The push-up section helped a lot.
• 8 Steps to a Pain-Free Back by Esther Gokhale. I don't suffer at all from back pain, and I think the title of the book is misleading. What she does in the book is clearly lay out what a good posture looks like and the simple mechanics of getting it. For instance her "shoulder roll" technique I applied to RC/PE3, and finally I "got" what the correct shoulder/arm loading should be and very quickly broke through my plateau. Her talk about using the corset (and rib cage positioning) have helped so many of my GST movements, especially with HS, even with xiao-pengs.

HamdiC said:

I'm sure this has been said before, but I'll chime in anyway.

After having been stuck at a whole slew of elements (for almost the same micocyles actually) for literally about 7 months, I slowly began to break through and master them one by one recently.

I applied the technique of simply trying to add at least 1 total rep to my workout each time. This helped to slowly inch my strength up.

But one thing I noticed that each time helped get me through the plateau was taking a look at my technique. Really getting in and analysing it and seeing where I could "save" energy in it. Because I saw that part of what I had to do was to become more effecient at the exercise, as well as make sure I'm doing it right (which incidentally are usually the same). I saw that a by product of powering through things was to just tense everything, and usually miss loading the correct muscles in the most effecient way.

So it wasn't just about simply trying to power my way towards another extra rep, but constantly, consciously being aware of and trying to be more effortless with my form (not the same as cheating to make it easier).

As an example: the big cue that had me master HBP/P2 pushups (after being stuck at 4x12r for months), was to actually engage and push from particular muscles of my back, which helped me to keep tension in the bottom portion of the movement and therefore not "bleed tourque" as Kelly Starrett would say. I saw that everytime I went down to the bottom part of the push-up, I was dumping the tension with a slight sag which would load up my tricepts even more, and was wearing them out very quickly. Instead I concentrated on hitting the bottom part of the movement with this slight tension in my upper back which stopped a loss of tention, and thereby took some of the unnecessary load off of the tricepts (I think anyway...!).

So, basically part of getting better at an exercise is not only powering and grinding through it, but also feeling how to do it with only the necessary tension in the correct places and not wasting energy with unnecessary tension. Everytime I've gone in and done this with exercises, I've broken through my plateaus.

Yes. You will experience exactly the same with HBR. Efficiency is key.

HamdiC said:

I saw that everytime I went down to the bottom part of the push-up, I was dumping the tension with a slight sag which would load up my tricepts even more, and was wearing them out very quickly. Instead I concentrated on hitting the bottom part of the movement with this slight tension in my upper back which stopped a loss of tention, and thereby took some of the unnecessary load off of the tricepts (I think anyway...!).

This is poetry. I'm clipping it.

Ravn said:

Yes. You will experience exactly the same with HBR. Efficiency is key.

I've noticed this with ABR. It's what helped me break through the 4x28r barrier I was at for over 2 months.

This is what we mean when we say 'learning the body shapes' in planks, hollows, etc.

This isn't cheating; for elements with even more disadvantaged leverage (levers, pl...) it is the only way to complete them. So learn how to hold yourself while you still have eg) foot support

Of course we have all seen the people who are strong enough to break the rules (cf. the gymnast with the strikingly non-protracted planche, Tong someone), however it is hard to get that strong without maximising the leverage allowed by your body, no matter how precarious a basis you are working with

Jon Douglas said:

This is what we mean when we say 'learning the body shapes' in planks, hollows, etc.

This isn't cheating; for elements with even more disadvantaged leverage (levers, pl...) it is the only way to complete them. So learn how to hold yourself while you still have eg) foot support

Yep. Makes sense.

I see that it's not about maximum tension everywhere immediately, but actually the right amount of tension, in the right muscles, in the correct sequence.

Yep. My experience is that for beginners especially, we have no real idea how to isolate that efficient muscle activation patterns, even when we think we have it right. So it's safer and more productive to err on the side of more tension than less; with time and reps you zone in on what you've found here then you are educating your body as well as strengthening it, and that's where these progressions begin to get not only more rapid but self-correcting; you will quickly feel when you lose shape and either recover or terminate sets.

Congrats on a strong step forward

Jon Douglas said:

Yep. My experience is that for beginners especially, we have no real idea how to isolate that efficient muscle activation patterns, even when we think we have it right. So it's safer and more productive to err on the side of more tension than less; with time and reps you zone in on what you've found here then you are educating your body as well as strengthening it, and that's where these progressions begin to get not only more rapid but self-correcting; you will quickly feel when you lose shape and either recover or terminate sets.

Congrats on a strong step forward

Thanks, man.

HamdiC,

Thanks very much for this.

This is how I've been plowing through HBP, which I now see hasn't been the most efficient way of doing things.

Each week I do five sets of various reps in descending order, with the goal of attaining 75 reps in about 13 weeks' time from today.

This week I've done sets of 16, 14, 12, 10, 10. Next week, I'll do 16, 14, 12, 11, 10, and so on, until I reach 75 reps.

After reading your post, I'm going to look up Starett's book and experiment with adding some tension to back, and see if I can do this more efficiently, and hopefully add a minimum of 2 reps per week, which will lead to mastery in about 6 weeks or less.

Will keep you posted if it works.

At the bottom position of pushups, I fully retract my scapula (which activates the mid traps and rhomboids.)

~Atticus said:

HamdiC,

 

Thanks very much for this.

This is how I've been plowing through HBP, which I now see hasn't been the most efficient way of doing things.

 

Each week I do five sets of various reps in descending order, with the goal of attaining 75 reps in about 13 weeks' time from today.

This week I've done sets of 16, 14, 12, 10, 10. Next week, I'll do 16, 14, 12, 11, 10, and so on, until I reach 75 reps.

After reading your post, I'm going to look up Starett's book and experiment with adding some tension to back, and see if I can do this more efficiently, and hopefully add a minimum of 2 reps per week, which will lead to mastery in about 6 weeks or less.

Will keep you posted if it works.

Good luck. For me this came about when I saw that trying to push out another rep at the end of the set wasn't just doing it, but rather trying to make the reps at the start of the set much easier. For push-ups that means (for me) to keep forearms vertical and kind of relaxed and to use my back more for the reps, thereby allowing my triceps to eek out more reps. Starrett does a good job of explaining what to load and where to keep tension.

Hmms said:

At the bottom position of pushups, I fully retract my scapula (which activates the mid traps and rhomboids.)

I think that's it, I think you're describing the muscles that I feel contracting in the bottom of the movement.