F1/H1 and 'Perfect Workout Nutrition 2013'

G'day everyone,

My question is really in two parts, so apologies for that to begin with. The first part is directly related to Carbohydrate consumption for F1 and H1 training program run over a 4 day split (with H1 supplementing the lower body days). Workouts normally last 40-60 minutes depending on the micro cycle.

1.     So, does the suggestions/examples given by Joshua in 'Perfect Workout Nutrition 2013' apply directly to this type of training? Are the recommendations sufficient or too much? how much Carbohydrate would generally be required for a standard F1

2.     I also wanted to post up the nutrition and eating plan my Fiancé and I are working on to support this question, and see what some of the big brains around here thought?


Following Joshua Naterman’s advice (link), alongside reading Dr Bernardots Advanced Sports Nutrition book, I believe the following would be required for me (180cm, 70kg) and my Fiancé (154cm, 57kg)

Callum (me)

Daily Totals (includes the during and post workout numbers below)
CARBS: 350 – 490g = 1400 – 1960 CAL
PROTEIN: 100 – 110g = 400 – 440 CAL
FAT = 998 – 398 CAL
 

During Workout (F1/H1)
CARBS: 30g

POST Workout:
CARBS: 60-90g
PROTEIN: 30g


Candice (fiancée)

Daily Totals (includes the during and post workout numbers below)
CARBS: 275 – 375g = 1100 – 1500 CAL
PROTEIN: 80 – 90g = 320 – 360 CAL
FAT = 722 – 282 CAL

During Workout (F1/H1)
CARBS: 30g

POST Workout:
CARBS: 60-70g
PROTEIN: 30g
 

Thanks everyone and keep up the great work in this awesome community.

Callum

150 views shows an interest (at least in the topic name ) - bump

I'm quite curious about this as well. I mean, I'd like to have that many carbs a day, but it just seems to make me fat (and not gain any muscle mass).

I'm pretty much the same size/weight as you. I had been eating more like 160-180g protein a day, and cycling carbs between 50g (rest days) and about 160g (workout days) for about 9 months. I leaned out nicely, but then saw my recovery was limited, and I had been stalling in my strength... the low carbs really cut into my performance. I started upping my carb intake by not cycling carbs (eating the same roughly 160g every day no matter rest or workout), and noticed many improvments: better mood, I started to break through a lot of plateaus, I was able to swtich to 4 days a week training instead of 3. After about a month and a half of that, for the pastcouple of months, I've been eating more, about 200g of carbs a day, as it seemed I shold overall be hving more carbs. But I've noticed that all of my fat is coming back, and has been steadily for the past few months, wheras I've not gained any muscle mass.

So I also wonder about carb levels like this. I see that your protien levels are lower than what I'm taking... perhaps I need to look at reducing my protien since I'm increasing my carbs... which would help even out the overall increase in calories I'm consuming.

Oompa2 said:

G'day everyone,

 

My question is really in two parts, so apologies for that to begin with. The first part is directly related to Carbohydrate consumption for F1 and H1 training program run over a 4 day split (with H1 supplementing the lower body days). Workouts normally last 40-60 minutes depending on the micro cycle.

1.     So, does the suggestions/examples given by Joshua in 'Perfect Workout Nutrition 2013' apply directly to this type of training? Are the recommendations sufficient or too much? how much Carbohydrate would generally be required for a standard F1

2.     I also wanted to post up the nutrition and eating plan my Fiancé and I are working on to support this question, and see what some of the big brains around here thought?

Following Joshua Naterman’s advice (link), alongside reading Dr Bernardots Advanced Sports Nutrition book, I believe the following would be required for me (180cm, 70kg) and my Fiancé (154cm, 57kg)

Callum (me)

Daily Totals (includes the during and post workout numbers below)

CARBS: 350 – 490g = 1400 – 1960 CAL

PROTEIN: 100 – 110g = 400 – 440 CAL

FAT = 998 – 398 CAL

 

During Workout (F1/H1)

CARBS: 30g

POST Workout:

CARBS: 60-90g

PROTEIN: 30g

Candice (fiancée)

Daily Totals (includes the during and post workout numbers below)

CARBS: 275 – 375g = 1100 – 1500 CAL

PROTEIN: 80 – 90g = 320 – 360 CAL

FAT = 722 – 282 CAL

During Workout (F1/H1)

CARBS: 30g

POST Workout:

CARBS: 60-70g

PROTEIN: 30g

 

 

Thanks everyone and keep up the great work in this awesome community.

 

Callum

That is an awful lot of carbs. You only ingest about 90 around workout but then have nearly 400 the rest of the day? The type of carb also plays a role. Protein also looks a bit low.

Edit:saw you listed your weight. Protein is a bit low. Go to 1g per kg and then adjust calories to roughly match your intake. Carbs should be scaled for what work you are doing. Fat should then be adjusted to meet your needed calories.

HamdiC said:

I'm quite curious about this as well. I mean, I'd like to have that many carbs a day, but it just seems to make me fat (and not gain any muscle mass).

 

I'm pretty much the same size/weight as you. I had been eating more like 160-180g protein a day, and cycling carbs between 50g (rest days) and about 160g (workout days) for about 9 months. I leaned out nicely, but then saw my recovery was limited, and I had been stalling in my strength... the low carbs really cut into my performance. I started upping my carb intake by not cycling carbs (eating the same roughly 160g every day no matter rest or workout), and noticed many improvments: better mood, I started to break through a lot of plateaus, I was able to swtich to 4 days a week training instead of 3. After about a month and a half of that, for the pastcouple of months, I've been eating more, about 200g of carbs a day, as it seemed I shold overall be hving more carbs. But I've noticed that all of my fat is coming back, and has been steadily for the past few months, wheras I've not gained any muscle mass.

 

So I also wonder about carb levels like this. I see that your protien levels are lower than what I'm taking... perhaps I need to look at reducing my protien since I'm increasing my carbs... which would help even out the overall increase in calories I'm consuming.

If it makes you fat and not gain muscle then you should probably adjust. You say you had good recover on 16g? Why not go back to that? Also sounds like moving to 4 days a week wasnt the best idea if you are not gaining muscle.

Daniel Burnham said:

If it makes you fat and not gain muscle then you should probably adjust. You say you had good recover on 16g? Why not go back to that? Also sounds like moving to 4 days a week wasnt the best idea if you are not gaining muscle.

Well, it wasn't that cut and dry actually. But at 160g of carbs per day I was still pretty hungry most of the time. I think I just got sick of basically being "in a cut" for a year and fighting hunger, and just wanted to eat to my natural hunger. Even now, I doubt I'm getting more than 180g-200g carbs max per day. But this is something to consider, thanks. Regarding muscle gaining, I've had no luck with that at all, no matter what nutrition I've implemented or workout frequency. Would 4 days a week possible impede hypertrophy that way?

from what i have understood, it's the bodies capacity to recover which impedes hypertrophy that way. if there's too much Cortisol (and whatever else affects recovery, that i may not know about) circulating, it can cause an issue. 

a visual that helps me visualize recovery is is a cup with a hole in the bottom. if you work out, you're adding water to the cup and (recovery is) the cups capacity to empty that water, so that it doesn't spill over(overtraining) and get everything wet(injury, lack of energy, colds, etc).

where you fall with this "capacity" is unique to you. I found out I respond better to 3days/week and 2 day H1, where as it used to be 4dayF1/2H1.( how much better is still too soon to say, best leave a few(3-4) cycles do the talking)

Daniel Burnham said:

That is an awful lot of carbs. You only ingest about 90 around workout but then have nearly 400 the rest of the day? The type of carb also plays a role. Protein also looks a bit low.

Edit:saw you listed your weight. Protein is a bit low. Go to 1g per kg and then adjust calories to roughly match your intake. Carbs should be scaled for what work you are doing. Fat should then be adjusted to meet your needed calories.

I suspected it would be a lot of carbs - the 350 - 490g per day was taken directly from Dr Bernardots recommendations for a strength/power athlete (5-7g of carbs per day per kg of body weight).

Types of carbs is mainly sweet potato, bananas, pears, apples, potatoes. The only carbs we get from not real food is the sports drink during workout (oh, and our Saturday Pizza ).

I am not getting 400g of carbs per day simply because I don't think I can eat that much - but I was just interested in what others thought, given a lot of Josh's advice comes from Dr Bernardot's work. Thanks for the advice on the Protein - an instant and easy fix as I love my meat

I will say that since increasing my carb intake during workout (sports drink) I have been feeling a lot better and performing at a greater capacity (placebo or not). I suspect that is mainly due to not becoming mentally fatigued with a drop in blood sugar.

The other part of the question still stands though - does F1/H1 warrant Josh's carbohydrate recommendations? (in-line with Dr Bernardot's work?)

HamdiC said:

Well, it wasn't that cut and dry actually. But at 160g of carbs per day I was still pretty hungry most of the time. I think I just got sick of basically being "in a cut" for a year and fighting hunger, and just wanted to eat to my natural hunger. Even now, I doubt I'm getting more than 180g-200g carbs max per day. But this is something to consider, thanks. Regarding muscle gaining, I've had no luck with that at all, no matter what nutrition I've implemented or workout frequency. Would 4 days a week possible impede hypertrophy that way?

It could impede yes.  One big reason people don't gain muscle is that they don't allow recovery.  Assuming nutrition is in place.

It`s so fascinating that everyone is so unique... In my case i have a 60/20/20 carb/protein/fat ratio with around 500 g -600g carbs, 180 g protein and 90 g fat and haven`t even gained a half a pound for the last month eventhough i started using Joshua`s nutrition advices around my workouts, but at least leaned out a bit ;-)... I`m 183cm and 82 kg by the way.... I assume i should add a little bit more fat into my diet in order to increase my calorie intake and see how it`ll affect my body composition...

Hi guys

I know nothing about how to dial nutrition or 'how many grams a day/per meal/ per protein/carb i should get!?......can someone give me a good book where i can get a good deal of nutritional knowledge so i can begin to understand why "Perfect workout nutrition 2013" is the way it is??

cheers all

Dan Bernadot - Advanced Sports Nutrition 2nd edition.

It's a great read and also recommended by Joshua 

Oompa2 said:

I suspected it would be a lot of carbs - the 350 - 490g per day was taken directly from Dr Bernardots recommendations for a strength/power athlete (5-7g of carbs per day per kg of body weight).

 

Types of carbs is mainly sweet potato, bananas, pears, apples, potatoes. The only carbs we get from not real food is the sports drink during workout (oh, and our Saturday Pizza ).

The other part of the question still stands though - does F1/H1 warrant Josh's carbohydrate recommendations? (in-line with Dr Bernardot's work?)

In traditional exercise science when they refer to endurance and strength athletes it's referring to someone who is at a high level training for like 20-30 hours per week and competing. So carb and calorie intake would need tobe higher. If somone wokring out an hour a day 3 or 4 times a week applied those carb recommendations it wouldn't leave enough room for protein and fat without going way over one's needs, resulting in fat deposition. So it does need to be personalized and I think a lot of people find 2-3g/kg carbs works - some more, some less.

Regarding sources IMO there isn't any bad as long as you aren't exceeding your ability to store glycogen. Lower GI stuff is better except post-workout. Everyone's gung ho on sweet potato but In one study, the average GI value for roasted sweet potato was 82, for baked sweet potato 94, and for boiled sweet potato 46 (WH best foods). That's not lower in most cases than steel cut oatmeal for example. But certainly I'd have a sweet potato with dinner or POW before oatmeal

http://www.acaloriecounter.com/diet/

This is a good way to figure out what your macros should be. It's basically a guide to having a complete and sound nutrition plan with general recommendations. My only other advice would be to eat lots of fruit/veggies, eat good complex carbs (white/ brown rice, white/sweet potatoes, 100% whole wheat if you can tolerate it, and healthy grains). Eat lean sources of protein, (my favorite sources are fish, tuna comes to kind, and chicken). Also if you haven't tried the Renergy Sandwich 3.0, go check that out. Look it up on YouTube, it's the best meal you will ever have. Rener and Ryron Gracie have a lot of good cooking recipes on their Yourube channel.