HBP/PE2 question

In the past, I've always done my push-ups like I would any chest press, shoulders depressed and slightly retracted. I was taught this to keep proper chest activation and protect the shoulder.

When doing foundation push-ups, and from what I understand from the video, we should be more hollow throughout? I've been working on doing the according to the video more, but I'm feeling the movement mostly in my shoulders and biceps surprisingly but no chest or triceps... Am I doing something wrong?

I feel it pretty much only in the shoulders as well.

You probably were not locking your elbows out as strong before which is why you feel it more in the bicep and shoulders now. When I do pushups I do not try to maintain a hollow position throughout the whole movement like I would PPP, I strongly retract at the bottom and stronly protract at the top, this is how you strongly target the chest, back, shoulders, arms. Pushups are one of the best exercises especially for beginners, a lot of your main strength is built right here.

MattProulx said:

You probably were not locking your elbows out as strong before which is why you feel it more in the bicep and shoulders now. When I do pushups I do not try to maintain a hollow position like I would PPP, I strongly retract at the bottom and stronly protract at the top, this is how you strongly target the chest, back, shoulders, arms. Pushups are one of the best exercises especially for beginners, a lot of your main strength is built right here.

I really like that que. I just attempted to do a few push-ups after reading this, and it felt much stronger and better. I also noticed a lot more serratus, core, chest activation throughout the full range of motion.

MattProulx said:

You probably were not locking your elbows out as strong before which is why you feel it more in the bicep and shoulders now. When I do pushups I do not try to maintain a hollow position like I would PPP, I strongly retract at the bottom and stronly protract at the top, this is how you strongly target the chest, back, shoulders, arms. Pushups are one of the best exercises especially for beginners, a lot of your main strength is built right here.

The top position of the pushups should still be hollow. The top position should be the exact same position as sPL/PE3. Though at the bottom, there would definitely be retraction

Hmms said:

The top position of the pushups should still be hollow. The top position should be the exact same position as sPL/PE3. Though at the bottom, there would definitely be retraction

The top position of sPL/PE3 is a bit different than the top position of HBP/PE2. The top position of HBP/PE2 should be the exact same as HBP/PE2  

 

I find if I flex my last and depress my shoulders it is much easier to hold protraction at the bottom of the push up although even coach says you won't be able to maintain full protraction but to strive for it. At least in ppp, I'm not sure that the advice should be any different for pe2

For sure in PPP, the description says to keep the scapula strongly protracted and depressed. Does not say this for pushups, the pushups are really here to build strength and endurance, they are not as technical as PPP and doing them this way will not make you better at PPP, doing PPP is the only thing that is going to make you better at PPP. I see people trying to get the perfect pushup(or something) and making an element harder than it should be thinking that the next 5 are gonna be easy, this is not so with pushups compared to PPP. Its good to be particular and analyze every little thing, I am this way also, but I know when to say, ok, good, lets move on. I refuse to spend a 6 months to a year doing something only because I have OCD. Gotta know when enough is enough. Always continue to work on things but keep moving forward.

 

Not trying to argue, do whatever you think is right. I'd go by what I see in the videos and will continue to unless I get official confirmation that the video is wrong.

I've been trying to follow the video exactly which is why I asked this question.

So to summarize, flat back protraction during the lock out, slight retraction at the bottom and during the press?

Yeah I feel it a lot more in my shoulders as well. Learning about hollow body and all that though has made my push up form 10x better though. I remember trying to do weighted push ups with a plate on my back and couldn't because it would just roll off. My friend told me my lower back was arching so it was sliding off but I could't for the life of me coordinate my body to get rid of it until I learned about hollow body and ppt. Now I guess I have to work on coordinating my body so I can still hit my chest at the bottom while maintaining a flat back. When I retract my scapula trying to engage the chest more my lower back usually sags.

MattProulx said:

For sure in PPP, the description says to keep the scapula strongly protracted and depressed. Does not say this for pushups, the pushups are really here to build strength and endurance, they are not as technical as PPP and doing them this way will not make you better at PPP, doing PPP is the only thing that is going to make you better at PPP. I see people trying to get the perfect pushup(or something) and making an element harder than it should be thinking that the next 5 are gonna be easy, this is not so with pushups compared to PPP. Its good to be particular and analyze every little thing, I am this way also, but I know when to say, ok, good, lets move on. I refuse to spend a 6 months to a year doing something only because I have OCD. Gotta know when enough is enough. Always continue to work on things but keep moving forward.

 

Not trying to argue, do whatever you think is right. I'd go by what I see in the videos and will continue to unless I get official confirmation that the video is wrong.

100% this!!

It's true it says nothing about protraction in push ups but I've found it is a small tweak to make and doing those little things early on really help build the coordination and strength required when you go to the next level. I'm not saying don't move on until you can hold protraction the whole time in he push up but why not try? If you go through the weeks trying to maintain protraction and by week 12 you cant keep protraction completely for mastery but other than that your push up is mastered then move on.

I tried ppp with protraction the whole time and it was considerably harder before I started attempting to hold it in the push up. I might not master the push up with full protraction but it isn't slowing me down and it will allow me to progress faster with the ppp as well.

ausswe said:

It's true it says nothing about protraction in push ups but I've found it is a small tweak to make and doing those little things early on really help build the coordination and strength required when you go to the next level. I'm not saying don't move on until you can hold protraction the whole time in he push up but why not try? If you go through the weeks trying to maintain protraction and by week 12 you cant keep protraction completely for mastery but other than that your push up is mastered then move on.

I tried ppp with protraction the whole time and it was considerably harder before I started attempting to hold it in the push up. I might not master the push up with full protraction but it isn't slowing me down and it will allow me to progress faster with the ppp as well.

I already said I protract strongly at the top, but I do nothing at all like sPL/PE3 where I hollow my back out, which is what started my rant. It wasn't really about anything other than the fact that people try to add on to what's already there, which may be fine for them, but not really part of the program. Im really just saying don't lose sight of the goal and spend too much time on things that really don't help you at this point in the game. 

 

Its like a guy doing weighted rows cause its gonna make his pullups better, well it probably will, but so will advancing through the program and doing the work. What really happened is he got comfortable doing rows, does pretty good at them, but does not want to leave this comfort zone. And eventually most likely will never really get anywhere realistically.

Okay so we are kind of saying the same thing don't let over thinking hold you back the only difference is I try to incorporate those little things but if I can't manage them I will move on anyway assuming mastery requirements are there. So attempt but don't get stuck because of it, move on when you should.

ausswe said:

Okay so we are kind of saying the same thing don't let over thinking hold you back the only difference is I try to incorporate those little things but if I can't manage them I will move on anyway assuming mastery requirements are there. So attempt but don't get stuck because of it, move on when you should.

Ya good way to put it, I am guilty of doing the opposite myself with Manna, I couldn't do PE2 very well so I hung back at PE1 for 3 more months working on flexibility thinking I would come back and ACE PE2. Well I have good passive flexibility now but PE2 still sucks, basically what I thought I needed and what I really needed at this level were 2 different things. I potentially lost 3 months of progress. But I'll look at it as a learning experience.

I found the first week of mn pe2 Ii couldn't straighten my legs while they ca,e up. Anyway just started limbering throughout the day and just did a comfortable amount of reps for 3-5 sets trying to gain as much rom as possible. ( basically put proper training of them on hhe back burned until rom came in) 2 weeks later rom is sufficient enough to start working on them properly. Biggest thing was just doing lots of reps of these to become accustomed to he strange motion. Strength endurance wise I find them very easy but hamstring flexibility is quite poor these days so I could do a lot without any problem.