Podcast with Coach Sommer, connective tissue and foundation

Finally I got Internet again!

I hope this is the right forum for my question!

So, I just listened to the Podcast of Coach Sommer and it is really great! If you haven't listened yet, do it

Sentence I like best : "Do it right or you fail".

Anyways, they are talking a lot about connective tissue, strong joints etc. So during the F courses, you will slowly build this up, because it takes a long time! When I first visited this forum I thought about just adding some training to my routine for better results. But the more I am thinking about it, the more I want to get all the way through to F4. That somehow became my secret goal. I always try to tell myself that I will be fine with an afvanced tuck planche. But secretely....I want to get the straddle planche!

So I have 2 questions now.

Somewhere in this forum I read that F1 is 18 months long. 18 x 4 = 72. So 6 years for F? Holy sh*t, that's long!!! Is this the expected time frame? If I am wrong, what canI expect? (Forgive me, I really improved in being patient already!)

Can you build quite strong connective tissue if you didn't start gymnastics as a child? Of course, not as strong as real gymnast, but I don't want to do Iron Crosses or bounce on my joints 30+ hours a week!

Thanks!

MrAl said:

Somewhere in this forum I read that F1 is 18 months long. 18 x 4 = 72. So 6 years for F? Holy sh*t, that's long!!! Is this the expected time frame? If I am wrong, what canI expect? (Forgive me, I really improved in being patient already!)

Can you build quite strong connective tissue if you didn't start gymnastics as a child? Of course, not as strong as real gymnast, but I don't want to do Iron Crosses or bounce on my joints 30+ hours a week!

Thanks!

My connective tissue, especially in my elbow, is much stronger since I started Foundation. So yes, I think you can build it up quite well if you train smart.

It's impossible to say how long Foundation is going to take for everyone. The general opinion is that F1 is going to take the most time, after which things should speed up quite a lot once you build the right adaption. But it depends on where you're starting, your mindset, and your individual strength and weaknesses.

I think instead of asking how long it's going to take. Ask yourself how well you can master each element, and how fully you can dedicate yourself to getting better than you are right now.

I finally got around to listening to this. very informative. particularly enjoyed the bit about crossfit and connective tissue. I can finally shut people up when they go on about kipping pull ups 

F1 took me about a year to complete - Except that I'm still stuck on the last manna progression, so I'm actually not quite done with it. As for capabilities, I think I'm pretty average.

I used to think hope that F1 was the most time consuming due to having to build up endurance, but F3-4 is no joke. Just he HBP section in F3 will probably take me a year or longer, and the MN progressions, well, I'm not sure I'll ever get to master them. We'll see.

I am finally beginning to realise, that the part that consumes the most time is recovery. The straight arm elements just provide a lot of stimulus to the elbows, and without the patience to let ligaments and tendons recover, we will get injuries.

The ratio between exertion and recovery is roughly ~6 hrs workout/week divided by 168 hours (in a week) = 1:28.

So unless one possesses extraordinary tendon and ligament recovery abilities, it will take time. 4 years is certainly not unreasonable.

Flexibility/mobility seems to be the biggest factor. I'm spinning my wheels on a lot of the early elements of F1 and H1 while I improve my ROM.

I've no idea how long F1-4 will take me. 6 years doesn't seem unreasonable though.

I enjoy the training though so I don't really mind.

6 years seems quiet a lot to me o.O I'v trained in the streets for more than a year, and I've met a lot of people who could human flag, planche, both levers, etc in like a year...

As a proof, take a look at this video. This man has been training since only 1 year! He has a couple of other videos, and he can planche, human flag, levers etc with a pretty good form.. Once again, 1 year not 6.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qHvMDlQ8Zyk

Btw I forgot to mention it, but if u look at the description of the video, he says that BtGB helped him a lot.. Actually the reason why I bought it

hype said:

6 years seems quiet a lot to me o.O I'v trained in the streets for more than a year, and I've met a lot of people who could human flag, planche, both levers, etc in like a year...

As a proof, take a look at this video. This man has been training since only 1 year! He has a couple of other videos, and he can planche, human flag, levers etc with a pretty good form.. Once again, 1 year not 6.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qHvMDlQ8Zyk

The purpose of the Foundation courses isn't to get to those exercises as fast as possible.  It's actually on the complete opposite spectrum.  The exercises you see in Foundation are selected because together they are able to bulletproof the body in every single angle.  Each exercise is mastered rather than "played" with.  For example, eventually from levers, planches, side levers, manna, etc. all become your warm-up

By the way, I suggest returning BtGB you bought and use the money to get F1 instead.  A lot of the advice there is very outdated.  Foundation is actually very different than BtGB

MrAl said:

Somewhere in this forum I read that F1 is 18 months long. 18 x 4 = 72. So 6 years for F? Holy sh*t, that's long!!! Is this the expected time frame? If I am wrong, what canI expect? (Forgive me, I really improved in being patient already!)

I think that rumor is my fault. I misinterpreted the layout of F1. Assuming the your progress in earlier elements did not help you progress in later elements, it might take 18 months. But that is not the case.

A lot of people seem to think that Foundation will take them many years to complete. However, Coach has reminded us at least once that he went from 0 to Rings 4-level in about 4 years. (Edit: reference at bottom)

Sometimes I get frustrated with my slow progress, but I am starting to feel that the further I go in Foundation, the faster I progress. Revisiting an earlier element in one progression, I was amazed with my improvement in execution. The results are becoming more and more apparent, little by little. 

I aim to master at least one element (other than SLS) before I graduate from college (in just over a year). This is a lofty goal, but I believe it is within my reach, and that of many others.

hype said:

6 years seems quiet a lot to me o.O I'v trained in the streets for more than a year, and I've met a lot of people who could human flag, planche, both levers, etc in like a year...

As a proof, take a look at this video. This man has been training since only 1 year! He has a couple of other videos, and he can planche, human flag, levers etc with a pretty good form.. Once again, 1 year not 6.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qHvMDlQ8Zyk

This guy is impressive, and perhaps not an outlier. I believe a current member of GB, Alex87 went from little experience and is now at the point of playing with reverse muscle-ups. (Edit: Alex also has not mastered Foundation yet) If one were to work their tail off with Foundation for a year, I would not be surprised by similar abilities. 

Hell, look at the GB homepage! Dillon Zirke went from 0 to Maltese in 4 years. I think people are selling themselves short, not working hard enough, or recovering from serious physical issues if they claim Foundation will take 6+ years.

EDIT: Found it. Note that "the curriculum" includes Movement, Hungarian, Rings, and Handstand.

Coach Sommer said:

You guys are funny.  15-20 years?  What are you planning on doing; building a full scale model of the Eiffel Tower out of toothpicks with your teeth?

 

The curriculum should take you 5-7 years if you train seriously.  Obviously longer if you sluff off.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

i don't really understand how you could finish the foundations faster than the 6 years.. Let's say you start from the very first progression on everything.

12 weeks per progressipn, and there's 6 progressions per exercise. 12x6 = 72 weeks = about 18 months= about 1.5 year

Now 1.5 years x 4 foundations = 6years

Withthat say, it's all maths... You CAN'T finish it in less time UNLESS you skip the 12weeks system and progress before you get to the end of it, or UNLESS you don't start from scratch...

Otherwise it wouldn't be possible to finish it in less than that with the 12 weeks system...

@Hype, That's exactly the logic I used to assume F1 will take 18 months. It does not work that way. Buy Foundation One and learn for yourself.

You always test for 'mastery' the first time you do an exercise and its associated 'integrated mobility' element. Best possible scenario is that you are able to perform the required number of sets and reps (and mobility with the necessary ROM) right away - in that case you move on to the next exercise, which is a leap of 12 weeks at once. It is also likely that for many exercises, you start at week 5 or week 9 instead of week 1. You will always encounter sticking points but it is fair to assume that there will be several/many exercises where you don't need the full 12 weeks (or more!) to reach mastery.

Slightly offtopic: in the end - who cares? I really don't get why people feel they are entitled to 'get' something like a straddle planche in one year or less. Would you expect to work up to a 2.5 bodyweight squat in a year, starting from scratch? Why would it be any different for these progressions? The fact that some people claim they were able to learn a full planche in a year does not mean that it is the norm.

There is also a big difference between focusing on, say, three 'moves' (for example, front lever, planche and muscle up) and doing nothing else, versus working on seven different elements that require you to spread your energy and recovery but at the same time ensure your body remains fully balanced, mobile and 'bulletproof'. If you only focus on a few party tricks you will end up with all kinds of imbalances.

Ahhh now I get it! Thanks for clarifying this man!

Whilst it's possible to progress quickly it's also possible to get stuck. Some people have been stuck on the first elements for over a year. For the most part this is down to mobilit, I don't doubt once over these hurdles progress quickens but there are still strength elements that people have repeated numerous cycles of without achieving mastery.

Until the first wave of purchasers graduate, the time it will take the average consumer is speculation.

15-20 years seems ridiculous, I'd be happy with 4-6 years but my mobility/flexibility is very poor.

I bought F1 in January 2014!.......it's almost october and I'm now midway through F2!

My work days are monday, tueday, thursday, friday with handstand one on wednesday and saturday. Sunday off.

At this rate, with diligent hard work, i figure i will be at mastery within the next two years.

my advice is NEVER SKIP WEEKS ON STRAIGHT ARM STRENGTH!...even if the first two weeks are easy, it's still loading the tendon and joints in a disadvantaged position. it's not worth the tendonitis just because the exercise isn't 'fun'.

additionally, i would never skip 'wrist' work on handstand one either!.....the risks far out weigh the benefits

Id like to listen to the original podcast . pls add a link. tks