HS/PE1>iM Form Check

Had my son snap this pic on my phone this morning to see where I'm at.  My previous recorded attempts at this have always resulted in excessive arching.  I think this is much better, but ROM needs improvement.  How close am I?

Back looks nice and straight, which is usually not what I see, so nice on that. ROM definitely needs to increase in the lean and the arms/shoulders. Some have had luck stretching/self massage in the hip flexors/glutes/lower body to get more lean.

The usual recommendation is widening grip enough to get a decent ROM, attain mastery, then move grip in .00004 microns . Tape on the bar is good for marking position and, even if you barely move, just being able to see progress is always a good mental boost.

Three weeks progress, definitely seeing some improvement. I think I'm arching just a little bit, but definitely getting more ROM both in my shoulders and in the lean.

Definitely ROM improvement in lean, which may be counteracting the ROM increase in the shoulders...i.e. you lean farther and your arms can't go as far back so it doesn't look as impressive.

Still can't tell about the width of your grip, but to me it looks a little narrow. If you watch the demo vid he seems to be a little wider than you, but again, hard to tell with the angle. From what I've read, shoulder width for mastery is with the thumb side of the hand in line with the outside of the delts.

Actually - I have a question about the PE1>iM too.
Despite having worked it for 9 months or so, I still discover new things - like with many of the other exercises.

Obviously, you are supposed to elevate your scapulae. But I noticed today, that it seems like this is also the only possible way to actually rotate the scapulae backwards in order to bring the bar behind your head. Is that correct? If the shoulders are not pressed up, it actually physically limits ROM backwards?

And maybe I'm doing something wrong - but does anyone else notice some kind of dislocate going on?
It's actually a bit painful for me when I relocate at the end of the set. My shoulders/traps/lats/pecs/something are tight like no ones business, though. Am I doing it wrong or is it supposed to feel like that? I think maybe I could turn it into a real dislocate if I had the mobility - I have to widen my grip quite a bit in order to really dislocate though.

Only one tip. do not flex your wrist up, try to flex only with the traps.

Kage said:

Actually - I have a question about the PE1>iM too.

Despite having worked it for 9 months or so, I still discover new things - like with many of the other exercises.

Obviously, you are supposed to elevate your scapulae. But I noticed today, that it seems like this is also the only possible way to actually rotate the scapulae backwards in order to bring the bar behind your head. Is that correct? If the shoulders are not pressed up, it actually physically limits ROM backwards?

And maybe I'm doing something wrong - but does anyone else notice some kind of dislocate going on?

It's actually a bit painful for me when I relocate at the end of the set. My shoulders/traps/lats/pecs/something are tight like no ones business, though. Am I doing it wrong or is it supposed to feel like that? I think maybe I could turn it into a real dislocate if I had the mobility - I have to widen my grip quite a bit in order to really dislocate though.

The athlete in the video does have a bit of a dislocate going on, it has been stated a few times that this it is wrong to dislocate, there is no way you are going to get the ROM of the athlete in the video without dislocating unless you are a freak and even then I don't think it is physically possible, I'd like to see videos otherwise. 

MattProulx said:

The athlete in the video does have a bit of a dislocate going on, it has been stated a few times that this it is wrong to dislocate, there is no way you are going to get the ROM of the athlete in the video without dislocating unless you are a freak and even then I don't think it is physically possible, I'd like to see videos otherwise. 

Here's Coach:

- At shoulder width to only slightly wider there is very little dislocation that is going to occur, regardless of how hard you try.  Nor is rotation something you should pursue with this particular exercise.

 - Focus on maximizing the shoulder flexion 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

 

TANSTAAFL said:

Here's Coach:

Exactly what he said(read this before).

 I do this iM everyday with a 20lb bar as part of my stretching routine and also hang from a pullup bar and flex, using a heavier bar and standing might give you a better feel for this element, it will teach you to push the weight up and overhead, if you lean a little you have no choice but to maintain flexion to stay balanced.

Yeah, pretty much what I was asking/thinking.
You could theoretically go into dislocation here, cause it's basically a dislocate with a narrow grip, but you won't cause you are just not that flexible/mobile?

Kage said:

Yeah, pretty much what I was asking/thinking.

You could theoretically go into dislocation here, cause it's basically a dislocate with a narrow grip, but you won't cause you are just not that flexible/mobile?

 I could try but it would hurt, I think that is a level of mobility beyond what is required, unless you are fitting into a 2'x2' box

Besides I think the wrists are the limiting factor here when holding a bar this narrow

alex87 said:

Only one tip. do not flex your wrist up, try to flex only with the traps.

Hei Alex, as far as I understood from Coach's reply on this thread, we are indeed supposed to flex the wrists...

MattProulx said:

The athlete in the video does have a bit of a dislocate going on, it has been stated a few times that this it is wrong to dislocate, there is no way you are going to get the ROM of the athlete in the video without dislocating unless you are a freak and even then I don't think it is physically possible, I'd like to see videos otherwise. 

So if that's the case and we can't go use the athlete in the video for reference, what is the standard for this?  Am I close in the second pic I posted, or do I still have a ways to go?

jshaw said:

So if that's the case and we can't go use the athlete in the video for reference, what is the standard for this?  Am I close in the second pic I posted, or do I still have a ways to go?

I don't think anyone wants to answer that question in fear that they might be questioning the relevance of the reference video(I have asked it before with no answers). But the video gives you the idea of what to do, he is still flexing. I can't tell exactly how your back is aligned because you have a shirt on but looking at the shoulders I would say you are very close. You can only physically flex so far. Since flexion is the point of this mobility element I am going to say that alignment of the wrists, elbows, shoulders, and spine is probably sufficient. I have been consistently working to get the most out of this, I have long since moved on to other elements but will always continue to try to improve or at least strengthen this position.

In short, go as far as you can until you start to feel slight rotation, this is where you want to be.

Well, I haven't mastered the im yet either, but I'd say that you are probably supposed to open the shoulders just past 180 degrees.

As far as I understand the point is to open the shoulders so that the im transfers into the handstand. And in the handstand, opening the shoulders 180 degrees gives you a perfect line as long as all the other joints stack up correctly. Therefore (and I believe the video reference confirms this) you should open at least a bit past 180 so you have some leeway.

If you have to really strain to get into 180 degrees, I think you will have a hard time making corrections in the handstand. You are basically using all your concentration and might just barely holding the line.

Is this correct thinking? Maybe someone can chime in on that who is a bit more advanced in the progressions.

Kage said:

Well, I haven't mastered the im yet either, but I'd say that you are probably supposed to open the shoulders just past 180 degrees.

As far as I understand the point is to open the shoulders so that the im transfers into the handstand. And in the handstand, opening the shoulders 180 degrees gives you a perfect line as long as all the other joints stack up correctly. Therefore (and I believe the video reference confirms this) you should open at least a bit past 180 so you have some leeway.

If you have to really strain to get into 180 degrees, I think you will have a hard time making corrections in the handstand. You are basically using all your concentration and might just barely holding the line.

Is this correct thinking? Maybe someone can chime in on that who is a bit more advanced in the progressions.

This sounds right on to me, but a green light from a GB athlete or the like would be glorious.

Mastery attempt.

I think the amount of lean is more than enough, but try keeping the back a tiny bit more straight - like in the first pic (the lower back is flexing a little bit in this video). And open the shoulders a little bit more, it's very very close. Now it's at 182 degrees or something, try cranking it to 190. Also flip the wrists back, they are straight now and should be bent - like if you were in a handstand.

So 180 degress is sufficient here? From the video, which I know is exaggerated bc of the shoulder roll, and from others videos, they seem to go much farther.

Kage said:

I think the amount of lean is more than enough, but try keeping the back a tiny bit more straight - like in the first pic (the lower back is flexing a little bit in this video). And open the shoulders a little bit more, it's very very close. Now it's at 182 degrees or something, try cranking it to 190. Also flip the wrists back, they are straight now and should be bent - like if you were in a handstand.

Thanks for the input.

JaredL said:

So 180 degress is sufficient here? From the video, which I know is exaggerated bc of the shoulder roll, and from others videos, they seem to go much farther.

I think the consensus is that the video is beyond what is capable without dislocating, but you should still strive for more than 180 degrees.  As others above have pointed out, you'll want at least a little more than 180 degrees to allow for corrections while in a handstand.