Mastery only after long stretching session (MN/PE2)

Hello everyone, I have been working on developing both passive and active flexibility needed to demonstrate mastery for the Straddle Up (MN/PE2) since I understand it is necessary to progress further. Recently I have implemented my stretching sessions to really intense sessions (by intense I mean that I can barely touch my toes the next day) and I have found that my ROM attempting Straddle Ups right after is considerably improved. In fact, I think I might achieve a pancake in a matter of months, if not weeks. The only thing is, if I attempt a Straddle Up the day after, or simply not having stretched so hard before, my ROM is substantially reduced and not even close to mastery.
Should I move on to the next element once I can show mastery (no matter how long and hard I stretch before) and simply keep working on my flexibility to keep improving or should I stick with the same element until achieving the right ROM does not require that much stretching and preparation?

Can't really answer your question but I'd like to hear more about your stretch routine.

I think as long as you can demonstrate mastery, you just need to keep it in your warmup and keep working on it.

Basically I start warming up my hamstrings, hip flexors and quads. Then I perform 3 sets of about 45 seconds for each of the following: Front Bent Leg Lunge (with my belly tied to my thigh), pike, side splits, front splits, pancake. In between the sets I roll a wooden stick on my hamstrings and gracilis. When I perform the pancake, instead of trying to reach down, I try to reach forward keeping a straight back. Since I don't have a partner to intensify the stretch, I try to hold on to a sturdy piece of equipment (usually a beam, but anything that is fixed will do just fine) to pull myself forward always focusing on keeping a straight back. Once I reach my current maximum ROM I also try to hold myself actively in the position using my hip flexor and core. The effects are indeed dramatic, however the day after I'm completely sore. I ONLY do this twice a week.

As Coach mentioned though, trying to go for new range of motion each session is rather dangerous. He also mentioned that muscle tissue takes about a month to regrow. Therefore I am currently trying to go further only after I stick with the same ROM for about a month.
If there is anything flawed in what I wrote, please tell me, since there are way more experienced people (and fortunately always ready to help) on this forum.

Good work!  I think it's fine to meet mastery after stretching.  That's part of the point.  No need to think you need to do these movements cold.  That's why the warmup is there.  Sounds like you're training very smartly.  Keep it up.

Thanks!

Fran9 said:

 

As Coach mentioned though, trying to go for new range of motion each session is rather dangerous. He also mentioned that muscle tissue takes about a month to regrow. Therefore I am currently trying to go further only after I stick with the same ROM for about a month.

 

Is there a simple way to read all of Coach's posts?  If I click on his icon and click 'posts' it only shows the last four or so...

Amir Giles said:

Is there a simple way to read all of Coach's posts?  If I click on his icon and click 'posts' it only shows the last four or so...

click on " Find Content" it's next to Send a message and Add as friend. 

i think that the mastery should be done without an intense stretching session exactly as the mastery of a PE should be done without to much fatigue during a moment of the training. there are people who prefer to test the mastery when they are fresh, i prefer to test it when i'm fatigued. this could sounds as strange thing but if you think in terms of gymnastic routines you could do an apparatus as first event or as a last apparatus. you need to be able to demonstrate it in both situation.

the fact that you need to dedicate to much stretch before the mastery is a sort of escamotage (i did that in the past). if an exercise is a test for both strength and flexibility you should be able to show it whenever you want .

usually the flexibility of a person is tested while you are fresh. if you cannot demonstrate it without specific stretching is because your actual muscles reflex are too strong. 

If you have to spend 10 minutes stretching before you can perform the exercise, you haven't mastered it. The purpose of mastery is to become so proficient at an exercise that it becomes part of your vocabulary of movements - something you can call upon whenever you need it. If you can't call on that movement without 10 minutes of preparation, then you don't really own it. 

The fact that you can stretch to the point of being able to achieve correct ROM is a good sign - with some more hard work, you should soon be at the point where you can do straddle-ups any day of the week. 

Joshua Slocum said:

If you have to spend 10 minutes stretching before you can perform the exercise, you haven't mastered it. The purpose of mastery is to become so proficient at an exercise that it becomes part of your vocabulary of movements - something you can call upon whenever you need it. If you can't call on that movement without 10 minutes of preparation, then you don't really own it. 

 

The fact that you can stretch to the point of being able to achieve correct ROM is a good sign - with some more hard work, you should soon be at the point where you can do straddle-ups any day of the week. 

i've searched in my vocabulary the right words to explain that concept! fortunately Joshua did better!!!! 

I do agree with what Josh said, but still, I believe a proper warm up, including stretching, is appropriate prior to doing these exercises.  Certainly, if you need to do intense stretching specifically for one element, you are probably not quite to mastery (close though!).  But I don't think we're expected to get into a pancake or a pike while cold, either.  Cheers.

i disagree with you, actually i can touch with the head the lower knee (upper shinbone) without warm up. no reasons to think that all the other poses should be different

I'm not saying you can't do it, i'm saying it's acceptable to warm up prior to doing mobility work.  Am I completely off base on this?

You can and should perform a light warmup prior to your Foundation work, including some light stretching and mobility work. If you're stiff before your warmup I don't think that's a problem - the whole point of warming up is to prepare the body for movement. 

I understand, thank you for the detailed answers.
Anyway I know you guys started gymnastics quite late as well, I was wondering how long did it take you to get to that level of flexibility? I know each individual is different but I am curious.

My personal standard for an athlete is for them to be able to demonstrate proper flexibility on demand. Anything less means focused stretching, bodywork, and required cold sets throughout the day until this has been resolved. That you can achieve it after warmup means you're certainly getting there. When in doubt, it's usually best to go with the stricter standard for performance.