still struggling with PPT in FL PE1 + form check

i was recently informed that i need to put PPT in FL PE1 (thanks to stefano for the tip).  i'm not sure i really understand what the correct form should look like, though.  is my butt actually supposed to be in the air when i do this?  

 

i'm mentally concentrating on my PPT, but i don't think my butt is physically in the air.

 

here's my form check from tuesday.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDhktfRQ7jA

 

any thoughts?  am i doing it correctly?  thanks for any replies.

Yeah, PPT would be helpful. I'm working on that Too. Thanks to my heavy legs and huge hips all the weight during FL PE1 is on my butt and only small portion of Lower back is pressed to the floor. It looks like i'm lifting all my upper body Working on that a lot!

I wouldn't worry too much about PPT in this position it should happen naturally if your lower back is flat to the ground you have PPT. It's very hard to have your legs at hip level as in this move and not have PPT think that's part of the reason it is a progression. Once you have your legs straight and low to ground as in proper hollow body shape then due to the longer leverage your pelvis wants to tip forward and you can end up arching your lower back which you have to fight with tightening your core and PPT but with your knees above your hips your lower back is being pretty much forced flat on the ground anyway.

what i'm trying to do is follow cole dano's advice from this thread:

 

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/10159-bent-hollow-body-hold-and-compression/?hl=bhbh

 

cole wrote,

 

"Just curl your chest until the entire scap is off the floor, kidney back pressing the floor. Pull your pubic bone toward your belly button to posteriorly tilt the pelvis.

 

If you can't do it in FL/PE1 you have no hope in the following variations, so yes it's important. "

 

but the whole "pulling the pubic bone towards the belly button" thing just seems weird, and i would have no idea how to implement that with the legs extended out straight.

Try to assume a full hollow body hold, FL/PE5, arms extended overhead and leg straight. Check with your hand, that the small of the back (lumbar spine) touches the floor. Really press it hard into the floor, and aim to make it your pivotal point. It won't happen, but aim for it. That's the feeling you are going for, so try to emulate that as close as possible in FL/PE1.

This is what I do , pull your knees into your chest , like the top of a tuck up but on your back . This will automatically put you into ppt and get the lower back flat , then extended the hips and knees till the feet are just off the floor like demonstrated in the video ,while keeping the small of your back pressing into the floor .

Hi Ronin168,

I don't really think it's that much of an issue in PE1 as by the time your legs are in that position your pelvis is posteriorly tilted nearly as far as it will go. If you want to understand the position try it standing side on to a mirror. You're really just trying to eliminate the arch in your lower back so that your middle and lower back and bottom form a fairly straight line. What helps me with it is while standing up straight bend your neck to look at your feet now try and feel as if you want see as much of your "front bottom" as you can without bending over further do it by tilting your hips towards your ribcage. It will round your upper body forward and flatten your lower/middle back.

The reason this flat back is important is that if your lower back arches it is a weak position and means your hip flexors (which connect through your body to your lower back) and pull your legs up are winning against the battle of strength of your stomach muscles and causing shearing forces on the discs of your lower spine. This is a BAD thing and if you're not ready for a full hollow body or you try to hold it longer than you are capable of the lower back will eventually arch your job is to not let it by PPT.

Ronin168 said:

what i'm trying to do is follow cole dano's advice from this thread:

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/10159-bent-hollow-body-hold-and-compression/?hl=bhbh

cole wrote,

"Just curl your chest until the entire scap is off the floor, kidney back pressing the floor. Pull your pubic bone toward your belly button to posteriorly tilt the pelvis.

If you can't do it in FL/PE1 you have no hope in the following variations, so yes it's important. "

but the whole "pulling the pubic bone towards the belly button" thing just seems weird, and i would have no idea how to implement that with the legs extended out straight.

This^^^

You may think you don't have to PPT in PE1, but once you get to PE2 it's critical to be able to rock smoothly without pumping the legs for momentum. So in actuality if you aren't doing it you aren't doing PE1 correctly.

The top position of the IM should help you to understand how to move your pelvis and back. Also sitting in a Seiza/kneeling position and then attempting to press the top of your pelvis back behind you can be helpful in feeling this as well.

Keegan said:

This^^^

You may think you don't have to PPT in PE1, but once you get to PE2 it's critical to be able to rock smoothly without pumping the legs for momentum. So in actuality if you aren't doing it you aren't doing PE1 correctly.

 

I think this is a very good point.

the frustrating thing is that i've been able to do 5X60 sec. from day one, but i was shaking, so i never progressed to the next level.

 

thanks for all your explanations of how to do PPT, but what i was really hoping for was a critique of my form.  i've included 2 videos - the first video is what i was doing for the last 2 months, and the second video is what i started doing now, after i learned about PPT.  i was in the hollow body position for both videos.  the lower back is pretty flat in both videos, and a hand would NOT fit under the back in either video.  i can do bhbh rocks with the technique in either video.

 

technique #1. what i've done for the last 2 months (before i learned about PPT).

 

(click on the link below.  i don't know why the actual video isn't showing up in the thread)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5eVpjHGfY4

 

technique #2. this is what i started to do last week, when i learned about PPT:

 

 

should i just keep doing technique 2?  is technique 2 good enough to pass to the next progressions? 

 

thanks

 

i already finished my foundations workouts this week, so i can try to tweak my form next week if i find that there's anything wrong during this form check.

Your leg position is better in video 1, your hips are too piked/knees too vertical in video 2; it's tough to tell about your PPT in either without seeing you do some rocks.

Could you film yourself doing some rocks?

ok, give me a couple of days, and i'll upload video of the rocks.  the floor in my condo is uneven, so i would prefer to film it when i get to the gym.

ah screw it, disregard my last post.  i just filmed it in my condo.  i don't think the sloped floor should effect it that much.

 

i filmed each version, where i was doing the static hold prior to the rocks with the same hold.  so version 1 starts with the static hold for version 1 and then bhbr with version 1.  i filmed version 1 and 2, and 1.5, which is a compromise between version 1 and 2.

 

version 1 (just focusing on flat back):

0:00 - 0:20 mark

 

version 2 (focusing on curling up the upper back and doing PPT):

0:21 - 0:38 mark

 

version 1.5 (an intermediate step between version 1 and 2, like version 1, except i'm raising the upper back more):

0:39 - end

 

 

any thoughts? 

 

thanks

You are pumping your legs (flexing and extending your hips) in order to create the rocking motion. This is incorrect and shows that you may not be PPT'ing properly in any of those positions or that you just don't understand the mechanics of the movement.

I'd suggest going back and studying the demo video more closely. Notice how the angle between the athlete's legs and torso remains constant throughout the exercise rather than his hips bending as he rolls towards his shoulders and extending as he rolls towards his feet like you do (in all of your rock attempts).

Then see if you can tweak your form so that you can rock in one piece. If you can't, then your PPT is insufficient and you need to go back and start building it in FL PE1

ok, but besides the ppt, if we look at the UPPER BACK ONLY, does it matter if the upper back is in position 1 or 2?
 
position 1:
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5eVpjHGfY4

 

position 2:

 

 
i'm not sure if i'm actually lifting the whole scapula off the ground in position 1, but i think i am doing it in position 2, but it's significantly more work

ibgc, i just reread your post and realized that you answered my question about whether to keep the butt on the ground or not.

 

i know a lot of people were trying to make the same point, but it's helpful to hear several people explain the same concept in different ways.

 

you mentioned:

"You're really just trying to eliminate the arch in your lower back so that your middle and lower back and bottom form a fairly straight line. "

 

ah, so i don't actually need to lift the butt off the ground.

 

thanks

also, i worked on the rocks again:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeXttH2E9dI

 

is it good enough?  i know that there is some upward motion with the hips, but you can also detect upward movement of the hips in the gb athlete demonstrating the move.

 

i don't really view the rocks as demonstrating more ppt, but as me putting more tension into the hold.

 

i know i ask a crapload of questions, so i appreciate all your replies.  thanks everyone.

The rocks look better, could possibly smooth them out a little (the better the PPT the smoother the rocks IME), but you are at least generating the rock from the right place.