To shrug or not to shrug?

Hi all,

say you were just doing a dead hang off the bar, or even during the bottom phase for each rep of a pull up, should our shoulders be 'shrugged' per se? 

As in, should we let our bodies hang down such that our shoulders become 'earmuffs' to our ears? Or should we be actively pulling our shoulders down so that our head is at normal height about the shoulders? 

Thank you.

LINK: http://www.beastskills.com/the-handstand/ 

If you scroll down a bit, you will see two pictures labelled "unshrugged" and "shrugged" to see what I am talking about.

I like dead-hang at the bottom of each rep. Though the decent should be smooth and controlled. This goes towards preparing the shoulder for more advanced moves.

Also completely straighten the arms.

I always go as deep as possible between reps, so I would say yes. If you relax everything but your grip, You're good. Oh, and don't relax to the degree that you soil yourself, not recommended.

Yeah, shoulders should be up by your ears.  There's like, a dozen threads on this forum going back to its inception that discus this topic.  Every few months someone else comes along and asks the same thing.  I was one of them...

For "Deadhang" pullups or handstand.....

Bipocni said:

Yeah, shoulders should be up by your ears. 

GoldenEagle said:

For "Deadhang" pullups or handstand.....

Both.

Bipocni said:

Yeah, shoulders should be up by your ears.  There's like, a dozen threads on this forum going back to its inception that discus this topic.  Every few months someone else comes along and asks the same thing.  I was one of them...

I searched "pullup form" and "pull up form" and "dead hang form" and "deadhang" and nothing came up. What kind of titles do you guys use? I always make the titles so people in future can easily find it!!!!! Also, I would be grateful if you provided links to it so I can see some more answers.

GoldenEagle said:

For "Deadhang" pullups or handstand.....

This is from the Jim Bathurst's BeastSkills facebook page (in regards to shoulders for handstands): 

"When I first started doing handstands over 15 years ago, I pushed out my shoulders and stretched as far as I could. It worked well enough.

Then many years later, I met Yuval Ayalon and I learned that one shouldn't push out so hard - it's exhausting. Yuval was able to put his arms over his head while keeping his traps relaxed. The shoulder was set more in socket.

So I pulled my shoulder blades down and back. I thought that was what Yuval meant. There are so many details to the handstand! (And one arm handstand). This worked better though. Holds were longer.

Then I watched videos from Dr. Evan Osar. He spoke of scapular mechanics and why the common "down and back" cue of stabilizing the shoulder blades often leads to common shoulder dysfunction.

Instead of down and back, I was to get long through the shoulder. I was to get my shoulder blades to abduct and upwardly rotate - getting them to come around the side of my rib cage. This worked even better! Things were still a bit bound up though.

I read more and more from Kelly Starrett and understood other limitations on my shoulder mobility. Attacking these restrictions improved my shoulder mobility (and my holds).

I continued to read Dr. Evan Osar and the concept of joint centration and adapted some of Kelly Starrett's mobility drills even farther. I saw progress from that as well, and I look forward to even better methods."

ForzaCavaliere said:

I searched "pullup form" and "pull up form" and "dead hang form" and "deadhang" and nothing came up. What kind of titles do you guys use? I always make the titles so people in future can easily find it!!!!! Also, I would be grateful if you provided links to it so I can see some more answers.

Should come up if you just search 'dead hang' I found at least 3 threads on the third page....

ForzaCavaliere said:

This is from the Jim Bathurst's BeastSkills facebook page (in regards to shoulders for handstands): 

 

"When I first started doing handstands over 15 years ago, I pushed out my shoulders and stretched as far as I could. It worked well enough.

Then many years later, I met Yuval Ayalon and I learned that one shouldn't push out so hard - it's exhausting.

 

These advanced HS cues are only appropriate for those who are already reasonably proficient with handstands (consistent 60 second handstands).  As beginners, your job is to maximally elevate the scapula.  As at this time you literally lack the experience to know which muscles to contract and which to relax.

First things first, gentlemen.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

To follow up on Coach's comment, this is a major problem with many internet teachers, and traveling 'stars' they are actually adding confusion by not understanding the at the moment needs of the Joe or Jane average trainee they are actually working with. Rather they add fluff and pizzaz, when all that is needed is some sweat.

Frankly Coach Sommer is amongst a handful of people out there actually capable of teaching what's needed when it's needed, and saving the the unnecessary for another day.

The lesson here, do today's work today, and most of these questions will wind up answering themselves in the fruition of experience.

Coach Sommer said:

These advanced HS cues are only appropriate for those who are already reasonably proficient with handstands (consistent 60 second handstands).  As beginners, your job is to maximally elevate the scapula.  As at this time you literally lack the experience to know which muscles to contract and which to relax.

 

Yes I may have been getting a little ahead of myself, best to take it slowly. 

Cole Dano said:

To follow up on Coach's comment, this is a major problem with many internet teachers, and traveling 'stars' they are actually adding confusion by not understanding the at the moment needs of the Joe or Jane average trainee they are actually working with. Rather they add fluff and pizzaz, when all that is needed is some sweat.

 

 

I don't know how much of this is aimed at the wall of text written by Mr Bathurst but, to be fair, an astute student would have noticed that he does say that his handstand did evolve over "many years". I think he was subtly suggesting at long term improvements towards the handstand, rather than getting people to completely ditch current form.

Bipocni said:

Should come up if you just search 'dead hang' I found at least 3 threads on the third page....

Touche'.