Heels toes touching legs locked impossible?

Hi everyone,
I am having severe difficulty with locking out my legs and getting my heels and toes to touch at the same time. Not just while attempting Arch Body Holds but even while sitting on the couch.

If I lock out my legs my heels come apart a couple of inches if I then externally rotate my legs while locked to get heels to touch my toes of each foot then get further away from each other. If I relax my left leg slightly I can get heels and toes to touch but only barely. My knees are touching even when my feet are apart.

This is making ABH very hard to perform as I basically can't fulfil even the starting requirements.
I had a partial meniscectomy on my right leg a couple of years ago as it would not straighten properly. Even after the operation it will not straighten as much as the left leg whether this is due to muscle wastage as I had the condition for a while or whether it is a mechanical fault in my knee I'm not sure (it feels mechanical and I'm a bit scared to push it).

Basically my questions are
1) Is it possible that if you have particularly bony knees this movement is not possible?
2) If that isn't the case is what should I do to get heels and toes touching while having legs locked out? Should I increase ankle flexibility which I think is already above average (at least for most non-gymnasts)? Should I work or stretch some muscle group I'm not using properly?

Many Thanks for any answers!

Ian

*note I deal with this a lot in my job, but that's in synchronized swimming, we have different ideas about hip rotation (0 turnout) and so my information might not be 100% aligned with GB or other land-based sports)

It's hard to tell from the camera angle.  Could you get someone to take pictures from the side  and from standing above your feet looking towards your hips, preferably with your hips on screen? At any rate here are some ideas:

1) your left foot is definitely sickle-ing, possibly the right is too. That is, if you draw an invisible line from the outer edge of the pubis bone past the bump on the inner side of the knee your ankle should touch that line and the ball of the big toe should not pass it.  In the photos your ankle is out and your toe is passing the midline.  Try to extend your big toe down and out, this will drag your ankle in.  If your ankles are in line you usually can get both heels and toes together

2) try playing with the rotation of your hips, see if turning in a bit more helps

3) try starting with your knees bent and your feet where you want them, then slowly extend, observe to see if there is anything muscular that you can activate or relax to maintain the feet touching.

4) get a buddy to squish your legs together with their hands, if they can squish you into line, your adductors should be able to do it too.  (ie strengthen your "tweezer muscles")

5) decide how important this issue is, if your knees are locked and your feet are as close as they are going to get, you probably can get all of the strength benefits out of ABH even if your knees won't win a ABH beauty pagent

Thank you very much for the reply synchoGENized I appreciate you taking the time to answer. I actually read another very good post of yours about a similar topic before I posted this
I will try and upload better photos as soon as my wife gets in, it's such a minor thing to look at it's hard to capture in photos and I wasn't quite sure what angle would be best.

The reason I want to be able to do it is only partly ABH I also do gymnastics albeit at a very beginner level and would like to be able to do such a seemingly "basic" thing properly.

Thanks again! 

I watched this video and yes when I go up on tiptoes my ankles definitely turns out as he demonstrates.

synchroGENized said:

 

 

5) decide how important this issue is, if your knees are locked and your feet are as close as they are going to get, you probably can get all of the strength benefits out of ABH even if your knees won't win a ABH beauty pagent

This. In my case my feet touch but my knees don't, when my legs are completely straight and locked. Apparently I'm a little bow-legged... but I would never think of it as a problem that needs to be solved! There's a difference between aesthetics and a functional lack of mobility

I'd say a little bit of bow legs isn't a bad aesthetic, as long as full extension can be achieved.  Sickle feet however...

Try this: find a piece of styrofoam and squish it between your feet, (concentrating on using your ankles) during stuff like ABH.  Over time switch to thinner and thinner things

Yes I know where you're coming from near enough is good enough but Coach has specifically stated toes and heels MUST touch but knees don't matter and I'm like this with straight piked legs in front imagine how much worse my form is in Arch body holds or ABR it's also a potential deduction in gymnastics.....everytime you do it.

IBGC said:

it's also a potential deduction in gymnastics.....everytime you do it.

Oh, are you planning on becoming a gymnast?

I'm already a gymnast Bipocni just not a very good one at the moment but how many gymnasts are great after 2 years?
Slow progress is better than no progress as a wise man once said  

Thanks for the tip SynchroGENized that sounds like a winner. Would using a theraband as resistance against rotating my feet externally help strengthen the muscles on the outside of the ankle and bring feet back more into line?

IBGC said:

I'm already a gymnast Bipocni......

Oh.  Huh.  That shut me up....

Me too I wasn't aware that you are a (competing?) gymnast. But the majority of us here are 'fitness enthusiasts' who should not overthink stuff like this. Hence my comment. I hope you solve your issues!

No problem guys, I love the wide range of people on here you get all different inputs and that's what makes it so great.You are probably both far better gymnast than me Michaël (and Bipocni) but I'm lucky in that I do get to compete at a very low adult level.

I'm also a Men's Artistic Club Judge which is why these wee pointy-toe type things annoy me 

IBGC said:

......You are probably..... far better gymnast than me..... Bipocni

HAHAHA.  Ahahah. hahaha.

no.

Me neither, I'm sure. I'm just an average 39-going-on-40 year old who's dabbling in a bit of F1 and H1 work

Are you both sure? At least you can get your heels and toes to touch

 

I'm also a Men's Artistic Club Judge which is why these wee pointy-toe type things annoy me

that explains it... its hard to be a details oriented good judge and a not so proficient athlete.  I won't compete in synchro or even look at a video of me doing stuff, it makes me crazy.

Would using a theraband as resistance against rotating my feet externally help strengthen the muscles on the outside of the ankle and bring feet back more into line?

The most common thing is to use theraband like this

http://www.allegrodanceboutique.com/2013/03/30/how-to-use-a-theraband-to-strengthen-your-feet/

That's great, thanks again SyncroGENized. I know it seems a small/tiny thing to some people but to me pointy toes can make a rubbishy routine look way better (the benefit I'm looking for ) or a good routine way worse.
I will do these exercises for a month esp the eversion ones and see if can get pointy feet to be proud of and hopefully my ABH nice too.