Overgrip dislocates

Hi,

 

I can't even hold weighted bar with full grip behind my back. I can only hold it with my thumbs.

I noticed that it's easier for me to use towel instead of bar/stick.

Is it good idea to start with towel? Will it lead me to bar dislocates some day?

hard to say without a visual, why can't you? how wide is your grip?

My grip is very wide. The longest stick I found at home is 115cm and I can't dislocate with it. I can dislocate with towel and my grip is narrower about 10cm. The main difference seems to be stiffness of the stick.

I'll post some video ASAP.

 

In the meantime, I'll try to explain on images I found on google

My grip looks like this:

As you can see, wrists are turned because band/towel allows this.

 

 

and as far as I know it should be more like this, but it's impossible for me to grip like that:

(I'm only speaking from personal experience here, so take it with a grain of salt)

 

unless you are pretty tight in the shoulders, the right grip for you will be kind of a sweet spot. because too wide and the grip is challenging, same with too narrow. 

 

try that in the interim, also in the interim, how're your iM1 and iM2? 

 

Serratus Ant, Lat and Pec Minor mobility really get pushed for dislocates, so there has to be kind of a stepping stone (progressioin) before you get to seriously work HS/iM5. (at least, in my mind, i need to be warmed up quite a bit to work on Dislocates, which is why i don't warm up with them yet)

Using something soft like a towel will not force your arms to rotate like a hard stick will. This makes the movement easier. If you are really having a lot of trouble, then I would warm up with the towel, but you should try to do at least a few reps with a stick to work on the rotation. I have also noticed that the grip gets easier when your dislocate gets narrower.

I can't imagine how you can be in trouble with this if you're supposedly mastered iM1,iM2, iM3 and iM4 with a shoulder width and 2kg added, alongside wrist work.

My iM1 and iM3 are quite ok, but I'll post some video for critique for sure. There's always room for improvement and I may not see my own mistakes.

iM2 and iM4 are more problematic for me. I'm leaning more forward to bring the bar higher. I'll post video soon too.

 

In terms of dislocates, now I think I just do it incorrectly - my arms just rotate backwards instead of dislocating from the socket.

I just found Coach's article "Shoulder Mobility via Dislocates" so I'll try to use a tip "thinking of rolling shoulders forward".

 

btw: do you stick to programming 100%? I have to admit that I  move forward a bit with PE elements even if iM is not mastered and I'm doing more iM elements (not skipping them) or leaving more advanced iM for later. I just don't want to spend 3 months doing tripods or headstands just because I'm lacking shoulder mobility.  Is it acceptable approach?

You should not move ahead if the iM is not mastered. The first few iMs are all about shoulder mobility and you are going to have serious problems going forward if you are negleting them. Im currently working on my 4th month on the overgrip dislocates. If the PE doesnt give you enough challenge, try putting more weight to the earlier iMs.

rafal said:

... btw: do you stick to programming 100%? I have to admit that I move forward a bit with PE elements even if iM is not mastered and I'm doing more iM elements (not skipping them) or leaving more advanced iM for later. I just don't want to spend 3 months doing tripods or headstands just because I'm lacking shoulder mobility.  Is it acceptable approach?

 

Herein lies your issue.  It is not acceptable to move on to the next PE unless you have also mastered the previous iM.

 

There are no shortcuts.  Stop trying to cut corners and you will get much better results.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Adriano Flo said:

I can't imagine how you can be in trouble with this if you're supposedly mastered iM1,iM2, iM3 and iM4 with a shoulder width and 2kg added, alongside wrist work.

 

do iM1-iM4 have any effect on dislocations? Since you're not suppose to dislocate with them, I can't see any connection with iM5.

 

jvenna said:

You should not move ahead if the iM is not mastered. The first few iMs are all about shoulder mobility and you are going to have serious problems going forward if you are negleting them. Im currently working on my 4th month on the overgrip dislocates. If the PE doesnt give you enough challenge, try putting more weight to the earlier iMs.

I agree, that not mastering first iM's (especially iM1 and iM3) can lead to problems with HS alignment in later PE's but not on tripods and headstands. So why not skipping them if you can master it with ease?

Coach Sommer said:

Herein lies your issue.  It is not acceptable to move on to the next PE unless you have also mastered the previous iM.

 

There are no shortcuts.  Stop trying to cut corners and you will get much better results.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach, I'm not trying to cut corners, just to work as much effective as possible. My brain says for example: since you have no problems at all with mastering tripods and iM for them is not related to either tripods or headstands, do both iMs along with headstands

rafal said:

Coach, I'm not trying to cut corners, just to work as much effective as possible. My brain says for example: since you have no problems at all with mastering tripods and iM for them is not related to either tripods or headstands, do both iMs along with headstands

Going by your original post this isn't working. You can see the trend of advice, why not exercise the patience to nail the first few in?

Dislocates are the first of that mobility series, and while there is.no rotation in previous Ims, there is a big flexion/extension element to dislocates. You arent going to be able to dislocate a given weight if you can't lift it from the back or over your head to where rotation takes over in the front.

Sorry, no way around this one.

rafal said:

... do iM1-iM4 have any effect on dislocations? Since you're not suppose to dislocate with them, I can't see any connection with iM5 ...

 

This is why I am the one who was the long time National Team Coach.  

 

In all seriousness, stop trying to re-invent the wheel.  Follow the programming as written and you will make much faster progress.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Undermining your authority was not my intention

If I mastered some PE but I'm not satisfied with ROM of iM, should I do PE's mastery reps and sets each workout until ROM of iM is acceptable?

rafal said:

Undermining your authority was not my intention

If I mastered some PE but I'm not satisfied with ROM of iM, should I do PE's mastery reps and sets each workout until ROM of iM is acceptable?

Yes. I'm almost 8/9 months on Headstand along with its iM. It's pretty funny because now I know for sure that I can sleep headstanding.

rafal said:

Undermining your authority was not my intention

If I mastered some PE but I'm not satisfied with ROM of iM, should I do PE's mastery reps and sets each workout until ROM of iM is acceptable?

 

Either that, or repeat weeks 9-12. 

I also can do headstands in my sleep as I am waiting for the im2 to catch up for me. I've thought about increasing the difficulty of getting into and out of the headstand by doing a straight leg/pike press to headstand instead of just jumping/tucking up like in the video. Any benefits to that or is that just more work that I don't need?

I think our work will be cut out for us enough with the presses in H2 playing around isn't a bad idea though

scmajerle said:

I also can do headstands in my sleep as I am waiting for the im2 to catch up for me. I've thought about increasing the difficulty of getting into and out of the headstand by doing a straight leg/pike press to headstand instead of just jumping/tucking up like in the video. Any benefits to that or is that just more work that I don't need?

I certainly don't think it's going to hurt, and if it helps alleviate your boredom, go for it!