Mn/PE5 - lower back rounding

Hi everyone,

I have a question that probably has an obvious answer so apologise in advance. For Mn/PE5, to raise my legs to 90 degrees I am finding that my lower back is rounding and that my bottom comes away from the stall bars near the top of the movement.

I have always had flexibility issues, prior to starting foundation I could not touch my toes. It's frustrating because I am on foundation three with my front lever but still on foundation one with manna due to flexibility issues. I have been working lots on Jefferson curls and pike hangs and I can get my legs to ninety degrees with a flat back if I'm stretching, but I can't seem to raise my legs to the same height without losing form.

So my question is: is it okay to do half HLL with my lower back rounding? Or should I be focusing on keeping my back straight and lifting them only to where I can maintain a flat back? Or should I be going back to a previous exercise to work on getting my active flexibility better?

Thanks again

Paul

I find myself in the same predicament, more or less, so I have no answer for you, but have a couple of threads going about related subjects, that I hope will eventually give some answers:

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/14228-shoulder-issues-mnpe6/

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/14331-gtg-for-active-pike-flexibility/

I am also working on this one with the same "problem" as you. The way I see it is that if you can do PE6 (after mastery on PE5 with a little rounded back) you're good to go, but if you can't do a full PE6 rep, you might want to stay at PE5 and work on the rounding.

I believe my weakness is in the hip flexors mostly as any exercise where I lift with straight legs are hard there. So I am currently doing PE5, making sure my back stays flat.

Actually, I can give you an answer. A perfect HLL requires the toes to be at or under the bar you're gripping. If your back rounds, and your lats engage, you'll hit the bar with the top of the feet or with your shins, which is no good.

I'm at MN6, which is a major roadblock for me; this will take a lot of work to fix.

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I can do a full HLL but my ankles hit the bar, so I'm a good 15cm or so too high.

The active pike flexibility thread was helpful, I definitely have far less active flexibility than passive. I might have to just suck it up and work on the flexibility now as it will undoubtably be a recurring issue further down the track.

Tuckett said:

I might have to just suck it up and work on the flexibility now as it will undoubtably be a recurring issue further down the track.

I think so. But out of curiosity, how did you get past PE-2/3 with your flexibility issues? If you can't raise your legs to 90 degrees with a flat back on the stall bars, how could you possibly have mastered V-ups with good form? If you have trouble touching your toes, how can you do jefferson curls with the ROM demonstrated in the course video (wrists past the toes). Maybe I'm completely out of line, but it seems to me from what I've read that you probably need to go way back master the earlier elements.

I can do jefferson curls with full rom, and PE-5 with my back flat on the bars but I'm still working on mastering straddle ups. PE-5 is a step up in terms of strength, but way down in terms of mobility.

Sorry if I sound harsh, I'm just saying what it sounds like you need to hear. 

thecolin said:

I think so. But out of curiosity, how did you get past PE-2/3 with your flexibility issues? If you can't raise your legs to 90 degrees with a flat back on the stall bars, how could you possibly have mastered V-ups with good form? If you have trouble touching your toes, how can you do jefferson curls with the ROM demonstrated in the course video (wrists past the toes). Maybe I'm completely out of line, but it seems to me from what I've read that you probably need to go way back master the earlier elements.

 

I can do jefferson curls with full rom, and PE-5 with my back flat on the bars but I'm still working on mastering straddle ups. PE-5 is a step up in terms of strength, but way down in terms of mobility.

 

Sorry if I sound harsh, I'm just saying what it sounds like you need to hear. 

I think I may have not made myself fully clear in my previous post. I meant that prior to starting foundation I couldn't touch my toes. But since starting and working on my flexibility I have much more passive flexibility - I can do Jefferson Curls and get my wrists past my toes, I can now get my hands flat on the floor next to my heels if I warm up a bit first. That's what I meant when saying I can reach a ninety degree hip angle with with a flat back who reaching down to the ground. But I just can't lift my legs to the same angle.

As for V-ups, I have never noticed poor form but I haven't really scrutinised my form. I guess it's so easy to tell if when my back lifts on HLL that I noticed right away that I was doing something wrong, but I didn't notice anything like that with the V-ups. I might take a video next workout and check my form on V-ups. I suspect you're right though, I probably had bad form back then and never noticed and progressed myself too early.

Tuckett said:

I might take a video next workout and check my form on V-ups.

I started to video myself more and it has really helped. I think my proprioception is pretty good, but some stuff I just didn't see until I started to film myself and really scrutinize my form. Since most of us don't have an actual coach watching us train, I think it's really important to do.

And if you want a really want an ego thrashing, post it to the forum for a form check. No matter how good you think something is, there's always somebody who will find something for you to improve on. (terrible for the ego, great for self-improvement) 

Tuckett said:

The active pike flexibility thread was helpful, I definitely have far less active flexibility than passive. I might have to just suck it up and work on the flexibility now as it will undoubtably be a recurring issue further down the track.

Hey Tuckett, if you wanna give it a go, there's some variation on the standing leg stretch that you might find useful.

It's a variation on this basic stance:

http://www.spinescottsdale.com/photos/exercises/standing-hamstring-stretch.jpg

The important point, apart from locked knees of course (both), is that you push forward the side of your hips corresponding to the supporting leg. so if you're stretching the right leg, think about pushing your left Anterior Superior Iliac Spine towards your foot.

This would be your starting position, from there you can do 10 pulses by type of each of this:

A - belly towards thigh: grab you foot (or the bar where it's standing) with both feet and just push imagining your belly button should touch your inner thigh

B - foot pulses: grab your foot pretty strong and pull as if you were to touch your shin with your toes

C- elbow to foot: grab your foot with the same-side hand (right in the example), grab the back of your neck with the other hand (left) and try and reach your toes with tip of elbow

Once you do Ax10+Bx10+Cx10 on one side, you pass on the other.

I typically do this for 2/3 times before starting any workout that requires leg stretches.

I usually set the foot on a bar at belly-button height, but it's good anyway.

maolu said:

Hey Tuckett, if you wanna give it a go, there's some variation on the standing leg stretch that you might find useful.

It's a variation on this basic stance:

http://www.spinescottsdale.com/photos/exercises/standing-hamstring-stretch.jpg

The important point, apart from locked knees of course (both), is that you push forward the side of your hips corresponding to the supporting leg. so if you're stretching the right leg, think about pushing your left Anterior Superior Iliac Spine towards your foot.

This would be your starting position, from there you can do 10 pulses by type of each of this:

A - belly towards thigh: grab you foot (or the bar where it's standing) with both feet and just push imagining your belly button should touch your inner thigh

B - foot pulses: grab your foot pretty strong and pull as if you were to touch your shin with your toes

C- elbow to foot: grab your foot with the same-side hand (right in the example), grab the back of your neck with the other hand (left) and try and reach your toes with tip of elbow

Once you do Ax10+Bx10+Cx10 on one side, you pass on the other.

I typically do this for 2/3 times before starting any workout that requires leg stretches.

I usually set the foot on a bar at belly-button height, but it's good anyway.

Sounds interesting, how about a video for better visualisation?

Lemme see what I can do...

maolu said:

Lemme see what I can do...

Let us see what you can do

Christian said:

Let us see what you can do

Not much more than I wrote up there really...

https://vimeo.com/83644609

pass: gbf1

Makes sense?

maolu said:

Not much more than I wrote up there really...

 

https://vimeo.com/83644609

 

pass: gbf1

Makes sense?

Totally makes sense. Looks like a good warm up. Thanks!

That was quick, thanks!