Motivation when progress stalls

Hi Everyone

I was wondering what others do to stay motivated when progress stops? Slow progress is still progress, but there are some movements that I've found just don't seem to be improving over time. For example, I've now been preforming HBP PE2 since I began the program 7 months ago and can still only complete 4x9 reps. This is kind of crazy, especially as I was able to do this on day 1, having done no pushups for about 3 years! I certainly don't mind monotony having done some extremely monotonous programs in the past, but at the moment I'm repeating microcycles over and over without seemingly improving. I keep telling myself that next microcyle will be a little easier, but that has yet to be the case.

In this particular instance I've repeated microcyles, repeated the entire cycle from week 1 and performed smaller volume increases between sessions/cycles all to no avail- I always hit the wall at 5x9. If the advice is just to keep plugging away and suck it up then that is what I'll do, but it is becoming increasingly difficult to be enthusiastic. Understand that I'm not shying away from hard work or asking for a free pass to more "exciting" elements; I realise dues must be paid in order to reap the benefits down the line. I'm instead only asking for a way to cope mentally with this sort of plateau, and also checking that I'm not being dumb by repeating over and over in this fashion!

Thanks

Andy

As long as you are improving the technique and the quality of the exercise, the drill will be more difficult, so you may are improving on the technique (more protraction, more ROM, etc.) and you are not improving on the volume. If you have a video from the past, you could see if you find any difference. If you see that the technique is better, you should be happy. Once your technique is mastered, you may be able to increase volume. Remember that the progress is not linear.

No progress is progress too. Who do you think has the biggest chance of reaching 5x15 pushups, one who does 4x9 for 7 months straight or one who does nothing?

When I hit plateaus I stay at them until I'm so used to it it's clockwork, and by then I'll be ready to go beyond.

Joakim Anderson said:

No progress is progress too. Who do you think has the biggest change of reaching 5x15 pushups, one who does 4x9 for 7 months straight or one who does nothing?

 

When I hit plateaus I stay at them until I'm so used to it it's clockwork, and by then I'll be ready to go beyond.

Well he could always try a different method to reach 5x15. I tried doing 3 sets of push ups just shy of failure everyday for a few weeks and it didn't increase my max at all. Then I switched to a 10 day thing where I alternated grease the groove with pyramids. After a few days rest I tested my max and I went from 30-40 to 60. 

I recently discovered that I lost mastery on PE2 and I'm thinking of doing the same 10 day thing again. 

After 7 months I don't think trying a different method could really hurt but I do understand that Foundation has it so you do the IM after the PE then repeat. But as long as you get to the mastery 5x15 with the IM the method shouldn't matter much right? 

DESTINY said:

But as long as you get to the mastery 5x15 with the IM the method shouldn't matter much right? 

Agree. For example I mastered cossacks and side-to-side squats by stretching. Tried getting it by doing reps before that and wrecked my knees. What did your pushup pyramids look like? How much volume did you do counting in the GTG sets?

[toughlove]

I flat-out refuse to believe that someone hits failure at rep 9 regardless of whether that's the first or 4th back to back set. Make an exception to your regularly scheduled programming and get more reps into that workout; you are never going to reach 75 if you are hung up on 36. It is not necessarily your fault, but the more you hit that wall the more you condition yourself to give up at 9.

Push into discomfort, grind a few reps after each rep #9 if that's what it takes to get past the block in your brain that you can go further. Hit eg) 2x10 + 2x7, or 1x15 just to show yourself you can do it. Or see how many sets of 9 you can get in one workout. If you have 36 with minimal rest I swear I will eat something embarrassing if you in all sincerity don't have at least 1x10.

(Do please note that this is completely against how your attitude should be 95% of the time, but if you are spinning your wheels and form improvements are not obvious then some kind of shakeup is probably in order.)

[/toughlove]

(I'm experiencing a similar plateau with sPL/SE3 and my determination to get more volume by hook or by crook is helping me through it. I hope you find the same )

Another important point is to take the no rest thing really seriously.

Sometimes I find myself shaking my arms or adjusting my close a little longer than needed just to sneak in a little rest. Don't do this. My progress is noticeably better when I take NO rest at all.

ajgregory,

There is already plenty of good advice in this thread. There are also lots of old discussions about situations like this in this F1 forum, which you can search for things to try.

I just want to emphasize the point made by Nacho training. It might be that you are making progress on the form, rather than the number of reps. I am also still at push-ups in the 4x11r range. I am making progress, but it is slow. But I also notice that as I get stronger, I tend to be stricter about form. In the beginning, I would flare my elbows to the side, since I was not capable of doing many reps with them close to the body. Even if I tried to pull them in, I did not have the strength to do so consistently. However, now when I do my 4x11r, they are with good form. That's a big difference in effort.

Also consider your eating habits. I feel that this exercise, and the arch/hollow rocks too, are a lot about endurance, so if your muscles are not loaded with fuel before the workout, you will fail running out of energy. At least I can tell a difference, if I train really hungry, after a long day at work.

Joakim Anderson said:

Agree. For example I mastered cossacks and side-to-side squats by stretching. Tried getting it by doing reps before that and wrecked my knees. What did your pushup pyramids look like? How much volume did you do counting in the GTG sets?

It's basically Stew Smith's Pushup Push routine which claims to increase your pull ups/push ups by 50-100%. The way I do it is a little more specific and it's worked for my push ups and pull up when they were really low (from 6-11). He talks about it in a lot of articles but it's always different. I think the main thing is just to do the 4x max reps total every day for 10 days. But I like my way as it's given me proven results twice. 

My way is just grease the groove on days 1, 3, 5 etc and on days 2, 4, 6 etc a series of pyramids all done in the same workout. never hitting failure

I was pretty impressed with how it worked since it was nothing special and follows pretty basic concepts that all these routines have yet I actually got those "blast your bench, double your bench in 2 days!" kind of gains.

I've done Armstrong, Recon Ron, etc none of them worked for me. This is what really kickstarted my pull ups. From there I tested a bunch of other things that got me to 20. My friends asked how they could get their pull ups up like me and I said if you can't do 10 try doing the routine I did. I wanted to see if it could work like magic for them too, but they refused to try it... don't know why.

But now I have a question for PE2, are they just regular push ups or do we want to keep the elbows tucked kind of like a tiger bend?

Thanks all.

Nacho/Erik: Form has improved slightly since day one (forearms a little more vertical), though I've been using my current form for a little over 5 months now.

Jon, completely understand the tough love- I sound like a wuss .  Just to be clear, by failure I meant form failure rather than complete muscular failure. I could certainly push through with crappy half reps; indeed I attempted 4x12 and 4x15 a couple of times just to try to push on, but the form was nowhere near mastery and the effort extremely taxing to boot, so I didn't pursue this. In today's session I wasn't even able to keep form until the end of set 3 of 9 reps, which is frankly ridiculous (I'll pop up a video of my next session and you can have a chuckle ). I don't consider this ok on my part (and frankly embarrassing) and since I haven't been able to move onwards while form remains constant after trying for quite some time my lack of motivation is the result.

I'm having similar issues with RC/PE4, FL/PE2 and SLS/PE4>im, though pushups are the worst offender, which is why I used them as an example. Altogether, my enthusiasm is being severely challenged at the moment, along with feeling pretty stupid for not knowing what to do about it.

This is the first time since I started doing some form of training about 6 years ago that I am finding it hard to find the motivation to train, which is pretty worrying. I thought I was perhaps over-training, but even after taking time off, sessions still end up feeling disappointing rather than productive.

I'll give some of the suggestions a go (I'm aware of the other existing pushup threads), but I must admit I'm not particularly confident about doing this across the board for exercises that are causing me long term grief whilst ensuring I don't make things worse.

Apologies for the whining, I'm just not really sure how to deal with the mental side of training when it appears and feels like you're not getting anywhere, not for lack of trying

Anyone consider maybe he is training to frequently or not eating enough not getti enough sleep etc etc.

What schedule are you doing?

Hi ausswe

I'm on the 4 day split (F1/H1). Sleep is not perfect, though I've always been that way and have managed to be productive and make progress. Perhaps that is no longer the case...

I'm not trying to shame you, just trying to put some fire under you

This is just a thought and may not work,  but how about adding some resistance to the reps that you can do.  Maybe stretch bands or a weighted vest.  

My thoughts are that if it's form failure that's stopping you, then take a magnifying glass to this and see which muscular/flexibility components are failing e.g failure to hold a hollow body, then focus on holding the form at various positions in the ROM of the PE, for a good amount of time.

I am having the same experience with getting that end ROM for RCPE4, so I do static holds in the top position and lots of chest stretching. It is coming, albeit far too slowly for my liking.

Posting a video will help us see where/why your form fails.

Jon Douglas said:

I'm not trying to shame you, just trying to put some fire under you

Jon, no worries, I'm not offended- I greatly respect your opinions/input 

Latestarter, I'll get a vid up in a bit to see what people think.

Cheers

Ok, so here's a set of nine pushups:

I did a few sets beforehand to simulate a degree of fatigue and as a result at no point during the set did I feel solid. This is what ends up happening during a training session, though to a greater degree. I started off a bit too fast, so slowed about halfway through.

Protraction appears to be lacking to me. It also looks like I might actually be shrugging my shoulders a bit too. All in all not great form.

Interested to hear what people have to say.

Thanks 

To me it looks like you have a lot more left in the tank than you think. What happens when you do reps 10 -15? A metronome might help you keep a steady count.

LateStarter@46 said:

To me it looks like you have a lot more left in the tank than you think. What happens when you do reps 10 -15? A metronome might help you keep a steady count.

A metronome sounds like a good idea. Single sets are ok, it's only when they start stacking up and fatigue sets in that there's a problem. Sets one and two usually feel fine, then fatigue builds extremely rapidly and sets 3/4/5 go downhill fast. The im certainly doesn't feel like a rest for the shoulders, even when only using 2.5Kg. I'll video all of the sets in my next session for comparison. The same ends up being true for all elements- sessions never feel strong, just taxing.

Saying that I think I may need to take some time off from training entirely to regroup- my enthusiasm is rock bottom at the moment having little to show for the last 7 months of consistent hard work.

ajgregory said:

A metronome sounds like a good idea. Single sets are ok, it's only when they start stacking up and fatigue sets in that there's a problem. Sets one and two usually feel fine, then fatigue builds extremely rapidly and sets 3/4/5 go downhill fast. The im certainly doesn't feel like a rest for the shoulders, even when only using 2.5Kg. I'll video all of the sets in my next session for comparison. The same ends up being true for all elements- sessions never feel strong, just taxing.

 

Saying that I think I may need to take some time off from training entirely to regroup- my enthusiasm is rock bottom at the moment having little to show for the last 7 months of consistent hard work.

on -all- elements or just this one? because it sounds to me like you've done one of two things or both: 1. you're entire life outside of working out is suboptimal(eating/sleep/morale) &/or 2. you skipped progressions without giving them a time to iron out your deficiencies and you moved ahead too quickly and are overtraining. 

The greatest possible motivation is the annoyance/anger/frustration that comes from failing to live up to your own expectations.  

When all is said and done, true motivation either comes from within or it doesn't come at all.  

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach Sommer said:

The greatest possible motivation is the annoyance/anger/frustration that comes from failing to live up to your own expectations.  

 

When all is said and done, true motivation either comes from within or it doesn't come at all.  

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Thanks Coach.

What can I say, except I now have to take a long, hard, honest look at my attitude. It may be worth taking the thread title and this quote and putting it in the faq 

Up to now I think I've considered myself to be motivated only if I'm making progress (where progress = more reps/weight/rom/mobility etc); if I wasn't making "progress" then I wouldn't be motivated. This is so wrong it's almost funny 

I've become so hung up on adding sets/reps/time and moving to the next week/microcycle/element that I've completely overlooked how my body is reacting. Right now it needs a break.

To that end, I deloaded a week early toady, hitting all numbers for the session comfortably. I ended feeling stronger than I started, a feeling I always used to try to cultivate during pre-GB training but one which has been alien to me recently. A great feeling. I now can't wait for the next session to come around, (another recently awol sensation). I think I might stay in deload mode for 2/3 weeks until I'm completely sure I'm ready to (gradually and carefully) move on. I'm certainly not going to lose anything.

Thank you everyone for your answers.

Yep, I'm also gonna roll a cycle back on all exercises, just to build a bit more momentum and feel training to be really pleasant for a while. Easy start for the new year

ajgregory said:

Thanks Coach.

 

What can I say, except I now have to take a long, hard, honest look at my attitude. It may be worth taking the thread title and this quote and putting it in the faq 

 

Up to now I think I've considered myself to be motivated only if I'm making progress (where progress = more reps/weight/rom/mobility etc); if I wasn't making "progress" then I wouldn't be motivated. This is so wrong it's almost funny 

 

I've become so hung up on adding sets/reps/time and moving to the next week/microcycle/element that I've completely overlooked how my body is reacting. Right now it needs a break.

 

To that end, I deloaded a week early toady, hitting all numbers for the session comfortably. I ended feeling stronger than I started, a feeling I always used to try to cultivate during pre-GB training but one which has been alien to me recently. A great feeling. I now can't wait for the next session to come around, (another recently awol sensation). I think I might stay in deload mode for 2/3 weeks until I'm completely sure I'm ready to (gradually and carefully) move on. I'm certainly not going to lose anything.

 

Thank you everyone for your answers.

Hi AJ,

I'd have to say that I have also been guilty of this, especially at the beginning of my foundation training earlier this year. I got really demotivated when I expected to reach the next week in terms of reps/sets and ended up flat on my face(literally sometimes). But after the summer break and coming back to my training proper I am now at peace with the fact I won't make progress every single session. And half the time, if I do, they may be so miniscule that I won't notice it. But as they say on this board, slow progress is still progress.

I hope you find your motivation again.