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Started by richilincez, November 27, 2013 · 25 Replies · 911 Views
Hello everybody
I am not very flexible and dont seem to be progressing much.
For instance, in SLS/im1 I cant lower my hips to my knee height.
Similarly, in MN/im1, I cant compress down so much as in the video.
Still, I m doing my best.
Should I achieve the full ROM before moving on, or should I repeat the pair (PE and im) till I m perfecly achieved the full ROM?
thank you
Richi
Thank you
Sorry if I'm misunderstanding, but it looks to me like you're asking "should I achieve the full ROM or achieve the full ROM?"
Either way, the answer is yes.
you r right my question was unclear.
I was asking, if I should achieve the right ROM before moving on, since I feel like I d be staying on the exercise forever if I wait till I get the full ROM
My approach has been to do lots of other exercises (stretches, negatives, static holds etc etc) to get the video model's ROM before moving on. Even though it makes the next PE look very far away.
I've gotten the mindset that it will take about a year to get flexible ROMs in most of my joints. I can do positions now that I was inwardly screaming at during the seminar this June (hats off to Orench).
'Build it and they will come'...
Yes build the ROM before moving on.
One thing that has helped me deal with the reality that I was (and still am by GB standards) very tight in certain muscles/ROM's and this means that I'll be on certain progressions for long periods is to look at ROM as a form of progression.
For instance, the great Paul Anderson (considered among the strongest men in recorded history) used a training method where he would go out in his backyard, dig a hole, and then put a ton of weight on a barbell (more than he could lift from the floor/ground) and lock the weight out (deadlift). At first the hole would be deep enough so that the barbell was just a few inches below lockout, but over time Anderson would slowly refill the hole until he was eventually standing on flat ground and lifting the weight from the floor. This process would occur over a long period (months) of time. I know this isn't specifically relevant to GST, but it does demonstrate that progression by increased ROM is a very viable form of progression.
Also, if we take things out of GST context and put things into traditional resistance training, it wouldn't even cross anyone's mind to think in terms of "I really want to rush ahead so I can get beyond BB Back Squats and start doing the really good leg strengthening exercises", but that seems to be many (mine included when I first started) people's thought process.
Right.
the fact is that I can do the strength positions well enough and with adequate ROM, it is the IM that I cant really master.
I get your point though, thank you.
so this means I have, as an example, to be able to lower my hips to knee level on SLS/PE1-im, repeating SLS/PE1 before going to PE2?
Thanks
R
Yes.
Do not progress separately on either the iM or PE. They are inseparable.
ok, thanks. Clear as water 
.
the forum here does really work, thanks to all the helpful people!
R
If you can do deck squats with good form, then restricted ROM is not your issue (since you are going all the way down to glute to calf contact). It is most likely a coordination issue I think (I see this all the time with my ju-jutsu students), and I would suggest you get used to the movement by spotting yourself (by holding on to something) while doing it with the full ROM.
Kasper Stangerup said:If you can do deck squats with good form, then restricted ROM is not your issue (since you are going all the way down to glute to calf contact).
The difference is that with deck squats you can fall back, somewhat negating the need for ankle flexibility. Skiers require you to flex the ankle while remaining upright and not falling backwards. Ankle flexion is fundamentally important for SLS progression, and it's also a major sticking point for lots of people.
I would assume that the problem here is his ankles not allowing him to move his weight forward enough to bend down without falling backwards. When in doubt, assume the problem is mobility... it's always the mobility. 
thecolin said:The difference is that with deck squats you can fall back, somewhat negating the need for ankle flexibility. Skiers require you to flex the ankle while remaining upright and not falling backwards. Ankle flexion is fundamentally important for SLS progression, and it's also a major sticking point for lots of people.
I would assume that the problem here is his ankles not allowing him to move his weight forward enough to bend down without falling backwards. When in doubt, assume the problem is mobility... it's always the mobility.
I have always had ankle flexibility problems. So I assume this is the case, as you said.
As you mention, in deck squat the falling back allows for "diving" into squat without the need to have a great ankle flexibility.
this means I have to keep on doing this till I ll achieve a full "ass to the grass" squat, with torso completely upright?
(I NEED to bend the torso forward or otherwise I won't achieve the squat, even with weights. My lower back is very stiff, too)
Thank you
R
richilincez said:this means I have to keep on doing this till I ll achieve a full "ass to the grass" squat, with torso completely upright?
What you need to do right now is master the PE and iM with good form, you won't need perfect ankles to do that. Just be completely honest with yourself and focus on that as your goal, if you skip ahead now you'll hit a brick wall later and won't be able to move on.
Looking to the future, you're going to need a perfect, heels on the ground, feet straight forward, ass to grass squat with your legs together. I'd suggest trying to sort out any particular tight spots that are holding you back and start working on them with the right stretches in addition to the mobility work. I'm working on my own ankle problems right now as well, and here are some resources that I've found useful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvAto6yIGLY
The first post has some good stretches to go through. And the video has a really interesting sequence that started me thinking about mobilization in a new light. If I were you, I'd go through all of them and find out your trouble spots and start working on them. The iM work for SLS is really good stuff, in combination with the right stretches you should be able to sort everything out in time.
this means I have to keep on doing this till I ll achieve a full "ass to the grass" squat, with torso completely upright?
I don't think your torso needs to be completely upright (if by upright you mean vertical). Indeed, I don't think you can do it that way, while keeping the weight on your heels. Afterall, you need some weight to counterbalance your hips which are behind your feet.
I've been having some luck with banded distraction decribed here by Kelly Starrett
Thank you
thecolin said:What you need to do right now is master the PE and iM with good form, you won't need perfect ankles to do that. Just be completely honest with yourself and focus on that as your goal, if you skip ahead now you'll hit a brick wall later and won't be able to move on.
Looking to the future, you're going to need a perfect, heels on the ground, feet straight forward, ass to grass squat with your legs together. I'd suggest trying to sort out any particular tight spots that are holding you back and start working on them with the right stretches in addition to the mobility work. I'm working on my own ankle problems right now as well, and here are some resources that I've found useful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvAto6yIGLY
The first post has some good stretches to go through. And the video has a really interesting sequence that started me thinking about mobilization in a new light. If I were you, I'd go through all of them and find out your trouble spots and start working on them. The iM work for SLS is really good stuff, in combination with the right stretches you should be able to sort everything out in time.
Kit's stuff here really helped my ankle mobility. It takes time but it does work.
I'd still suggest that you try kneeling on one leg, while the other is in a squatting position (like in some of Kit's pictures) or put yourself in another position where you are not dependent on your ankle for support, and then see how deep you can go. I've seen literally hundreds of my students fail miserably at butt-to-heel squats and point to ankle mobility as the issue, but when I placed them in a safe position they could do the movement just fine.
Thank you, I will try this.
R
Kasper Stangerup said:...and point to ankle mobility as the issue
What do you think the actual issue is?
Kasper Stangerup said:I'd still suggest that you try kneeling on one leg, while the other is in a squatting position (like in some of Kit's pictures) or put yourself in another position where you are not dependent on your ankle for support, and then see how deep you can go.
I've contemplated this a bit more, it seems to me to be an misleading test.
In my opinion, what you really want to do is go into the bottom of a pistol squat, and see from there how far you can shift your weight forward. In this position, I imagine just about everyone can bring their heel to the their ass and their quad to their body. If those two things are possible, the only remaining fault possible is ankle flexion.
The other misleading thing about the test you mention is that it takes a very, very small difference in ankle flexibility to make squatting movements much more difficult. I'm working on improving an imbalance between my left and right ankles. On my right leg, pistol squats are no problem at any point in the ROM. On left, they are almost impossible. If I put a very small wedge under my left heel (around 10mm), I can do them, no problem.
When I'm in the position you mentioned, the difference in visible flexion between my two legs is very minor. On my right leg, my knee only goes very slight further past my toes than on my left. But that minor difference is very major.
thecolin said:I've contemplated this a bit more, it seems to me to be an misleading test.
In my opinion, what you really want to do is go into the bottom of a pistol squat, and see from there how far you can shift your weight forward. In this position, I imagine just about everyone can bring their heel to the their ass and their quad to their body. If those two things are possible, the only remaining fault possible is ankle flexion.
The other misleading thing about the test you mention is that it takes a very, very small difference in ankle flexibility to make squatting movements much more difficult. I'm working on improving an imbalance between my left and right ankles. On my right leg, pistol squats are no problem at any point in the ROM. On left, they are almost impossible. If I put a very small wedge under my left heel (around 10mm), I can do them, no problem.
When I'm in the position you mentioned, the difference in visible flexion between my two legs is very minor. On my right leg, my knee only goes very slight further past my toes than on my left. But that minor difference is very major.
Your experience mirrors mine. SLS/SE2 in F2 solved it for me in a couple weeks; I always warm up with this one now.
Jon Douglas said:Your experience mirrors mine. SLS/SE2 in F2 solved it for me in a couple weeks; I always warm up with this one now.
I've been working on SLS/SE2 for a while now, it's annoying because everything else in SLS went smooth and quick up to then. I'm working without a counter weight now, but on my left leg I'm still holding on for dear life! On my right I could probably stay there for 10 minutes at this point.
I'm also working those inside/outside of the foot walks you mentioned, they seem productive.
thecolin said:I've been working on SLS/SE2 for a while now, it's annoying because everything else in SLS went smooth and quick up to then. I'm working without a counter weight now, but on my left leg I'm still holding on for dear life! On my right I could probably stay there for 10 minutes at this point.
I'm also working those inside/outside of the foot walks you mentioned, they seem productive.
Assistance is fine, after all the stretch is the big thing, just make sure you stay diligent with only using as much as you need 
Jon Douglas said:Assistance is fine, after all the stretch is the big thing, just make sure you stay diligent with only using as much as you need
I've been trying to focus on removing weight and keep myself up as much as possible without assistance. Do you think it might be more productive going with a heavier weight and focusing on a better position, even if it's supported externally?
thecolin said:I've been trying to focus on removing weight and keep myself up as much as possible without assistance. Do you think it might be more productive going with a heavier weight and focusing on a better position, even if it's supported externally?
Yes I do, although I did the opposite-- found it was easy to become dependent on the weight. Make sure you are aware of this; I'd even say do both, even if you have to stay in a 3/4 squat position to keep your balance without assistance.
See what I mean? Work the bottom with more assistance, and work as low as you can without assistance. I think this would probably be the quickest way to correct the issue, provided the problem is no more complex than mine was