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Started by Dan Jeong, November 27, 2013 · 20 Replies · 10,234 Views
I've read multiple times that you need to try to reduce the amount of leaning as much as possible in press to HS but nobody ever explains why. I am just curious about the reason behind it. I feel like the leaning part will definitely help training for the planche.
I have a couple of press to HS footage in this video and can anyone tell me if I am leaning too much? (I feel like I am, comparing to the pro gymnasts)
Press handstands do nothing for planche. (In my experience.) If anything, planche would be good for press development.
Anyways, I believe the goal is to be as compressed and stacked as possible. Not leaning your shoulders far past your wrists.
Yours is pretty good. The biggest issue is that your final hanstand isn't quite open enough in the shoulders.
A press handstand has some carry over to planche but they should be trained independently.
The reason we don't want planche in a press handstand (besides planche press handstand) is that it breaks the stacked body line and often requires an arch up to position. It is better to open the shoulders and lock them out. Then you can have full control and balance. In the beginning there will be some lean, but this tends to work itself out as you learn to balance better.
If you lean you are actually spending energy in planche-similar position. so when you lean you are using more the planche muscles then you need to add the traps work to close the shoulders. reduce the amplitude of leaning permit to reduce the energy you spent to complete the movement.
Press and planche should be two different things. A press handstand should ideally come from your handstand being so stacked on top of your shoulders that you can start to lower the legs without leaning much at all. When i pike press, it feels like it is literally all trapezius. A press hs should work from your trapezius and scapular muscles, and if there is lean you compensate with your deltoids and anterior chain. In the end, a good press hs will make your handstand way better because you will be able to correct underbalance without doing anything to your shoulder angle. This is why flawless press handstands is one of THE most important things for learning 1 arm.
For you I would say the opposite of what Daniel says; Your press hs has lean because your handstand isnt open enough. I saw your first handstand and knew how the press would look. You stay round in the back but you planche it too much.(which is great for planche press, but not for press hs and not for your handstand work in general) For you it is all about working your shoulder position because the arch is a compensation for lack of shoulder alignment. It is visible that your posterior chain can not to the work it should in the position you have now, so if you want to build towards advanced balances you need to fix this.
These two elements have opposite muscular requirements in terms of scapular elevation and depression:
Press HS - scapular protaction and elevation
Planche - scapular protraction and depression
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
Immense post Handbalancer, really knowledge there. When I start to training 1 arm HS (and I will, for sure) I'll read all your content and take notes 
I'm not as knowledgeable as handbalancer or Coach, quite obviously, but what about compression? I suppose that when you press to HS and you want zero lean (same as when you go down) you've to have tremendously good pike compression. Maybe good compression it is almost a prereq for press to HS.
My 2 cents, as you say sometimes 
At one of yuris workshops I saw a advanced yogi with perfect flat pike compression do a pike press to hs her first try !Adriano Flo said:Immense post Handbalancer, really knowledge there. When I start to training 1 arm HS (and I will, for sure) I'll read all your content and take notes
I'm not as knowledgeable as handbalancer or Coach, quite obviously, but what about compression? I suppose that when you press to HS and you want zero lean (same as when you go down) you've to have tremendously good pike compression. Maybe good compression it is almost a prereq for press to HS.
My 2 cents, as you say sometimes
being spotted by yuri for balance once she got into the hs she had no idea what to do . Just jealous of having a pike press before even ever doing a hs !
Handbalancer said:Press and planche should be two different things. A press handstand should ideally come from your handstand being so stacked on top of your shoulders that you can start to lower the legs without leaning much at all. When i pike press, it feels like it is literally all trapezius. A press hs should work from your trapezius and scapular muscles, and if there is lean you compensate with your deltoids and anterior chain. In the end, a good press hs will make your handstand way better because you will be able to correct underbalance without doing anything to your shoulder angle. This is why flawless press handstands is one of THE most important things for learning 1 arm.
For you I would say the opposite of what Daniel says; Your press hs has lean because your handstand isnt open enough. I saw your first handstand and knew how the press would look. You stay round in the back but you planche it too much.(which is great for planche press, but not for press hs and not for your handstand work in general) For you it is all about working your shoulder position because the arch is a compensation for lack of shoulder alignment. It is visible that your posterior chain can not to the work it should in the position you have now, so if you want to build towards advanced balances you need to fix this.
I am curious what you mean by opposite. Obviously you have a ton more experience than me, but I recommended fixing the handstand by opening the shoulders. Was I unclear on this or am I wrong for meaning this? Also I have found there is some carryover between planche and press in helping the idea of locking and pushing out. Not the same motion I'm aware.
Please let me know if there is something I don't understand.
Daniel, we meant the same thing. You wrote that his press was decent but his handstand was lacking. I was merely pointing out that the reason the press has lean is because of the way his handstand is. Working on alignment is the best way to fix this so you are absolutely right. There is carryover for sure between them but best to train as different skills. Especially when it comes to advanced balancing you want to be able to correct under balance by the way of presses and not by planching. I in general want people to learn to tuck well as well as straddle down to the floor slowly staying stacked and keeping the trapezius working all the time, before doing any sort of pressing up.
I have seen several flexible dancers who could press before they could balance at all. Good pike and shoulder flexibility helps a lot with this, but if you want it stable and want to do it from L/straddle L(and you should) you need strength and a solid handstand as well.
Handbalancer said:Daniel, we meant the same thing. You wrote that his press was decent but his handstand was lacking. I was merely pointing out that the reason the press has lean is because of the way his handstand is. Working on alignment is the best way to fix this so you are absolutely right. There is carryover for sure between them but best to train as different skills. Especially when it comes to advanced balancing you want to be able to correct under balance by the way of presses and not by planching. I in general want people to learn to tuck well as well as straddle down to the floor slowly staying stacked and keeping the trapezius working all the time, before doing any sort of pressing up.
I have seen several flexible dancers who could press before they could balance at all. Good pike and shoulder flexibility helps a lot with this, but if you want it stable and want to do it from L/straddle L(and you should) you need strength and a solid handstand as well.
Ah. Ok thanks for the explanation. I totally agree! I was one of those people who pressed before I could hold a handstand (or thought I could). Definitely don't recommend this approach as I am still working out bad habits.
thanks for a lot of responses guys! I appreciate all of the replies.
So should I work on opening up my shoulders first and not work on my current "press to HS" or is the habit of leaning going to fix itself when I correct my handstand? what should I work on?
Work on both. Nothing wrong with doing your presses, but get some work done on your alignment and flexibility. It probably will not magically fix itself even if your handstand became better. It is specific strength and you have to work on not compensating by leaning, but as long as you know what you are working towards and work on your mobility it will improve
A press handstand with a big lean will indeed carry over to the planche. However, doing the press handstand this way requires much more effort than is strictly necessary. The less lean in your press handstand, less it will drain your stamina.
Handbalancer said:Press and planche should be two different things. A press handstand should ideally come from your handstand being so stacked on top of your shoulders that you can start to lower the legs without leaning much at all. When i pike press, it feels like it is literally all trapezius. A press hs should work from your trapezius and scapular muscles, and if there is lean you compensate with your deltoids and anterior chain. In the end, a good press hs will make your handstand way better because you will be able to correct underbalance without doing anything to your shoulder angle. This is why flawless press handstands is one of THE most important things for learning 1 arm.
For you I would say the opposite of what Daniel says; Your press hs has lean because your handstand isnt open enough. I saw your first handstand and knew how the press would look. You stay round in the back but you planche it too much.(which is great for planche press, but not for press hs and not for your handstand work in general) For you it is all about working your shoulder position because the arch is a compensation for lack of shoulder alignment. It is visible that your posterior chain can not to the work it should in the position you have now, so if you want to build towards advanced balances you need to fix this.
Can I ask how the press allows you to fix under balance without changing the shoulder angle?
Coach Sommer said:These two elements have opposite muscular requirements in terms of scapular elevation and depression:
Press HS - scapular protaction and elevation
Planche - scapular protraction and depression
Yours in Fitness,
Coach Sommer
Care to elaborate on what the shoulder does during erbs?
A press allows you to control under balance by piking at the hips while pressing through the shoulders, ideally keeping on top of the shoulders as long as possible before leaning. The better you are at controlling the weight that goes outside your body line when you pike(or straddle/tuck) the stronger your handstand will be and you will get control to be able to intuitively control small mistakes just like with the fingers. This ability needs to be well developed for 1 arm hs for example where it is easy to fall back towards the heel of your palm.
That makes sense. And I have been noticing a drastic reduction in lean for my press handstands since implementing that tuck work you said every training session. Thank you!
Bipocni said:Care to elaborate on what the shoulder does during erbs?
I would imagine when you're going to your planche, your scapula starts going into depression and when you're going to your press handstand, your scapula starts going into elevation
I have a question about flexibility and presses. I understand that a good press should be with as little lean as possible, but this also requires very good lower-body flexibilty. If your pike flexibility (or straddle if it's a straddle press) isn't good enough, it seems physically impossible to not learn forward. Without perfect flexbility, the legs will extend beyond the support of the hands ot the floor and something needs to extend in the other direction to prevent falling over. The only way of doing that is to lean forward. Is this analysis correct? If so, the solution for people like me isn't to lean less forward but to stretch more, which will later allow me to lean less forward.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank Handbalancer for this priceless information.