Two questions on progression.

Hello

I have two questions.

1- I've tested myself for over last week and I got to frog stand planche. So far strength and mobility elements did make sense to me but here after one workout I can see this section is going to be a nightmare and I do not quite understand why bent arm half straddle is set there as a mobility exercise. To me it feels like a pure strength exercise which is harder than frog stand to say nothing of performing it right after frog stand. Wouldn't it be better to separate these two adding some mobility exercise that is mobility demanding no strength?

2- in some exercises we are required to do 5x5x10seconds. Are we really required to do 10 seconds in exercises that have a very short range of motion? I mean I understand for example negative body levers but if you take a look, in many other exercises guys on the video perform the movement in 4 or 5 seconds and that looks slow, I can't see doing some of the exercises in 10 sec unless pausing is required.

Thank you

Igor.

Trust in the program, and trust in Coach. I'm sure he knows what he's doing 

gohei_ said:

Trust in the program, and trust in Coach. I'm sure he knows what he's doing 

While it may be prudent to trust in the program and trust in Coach, this does NOT answer Igor's question.

I'll try to answer his question to the best of my ability. 

1 - Don't get too hung up on what is labeled as 'strength' and what is labeled as 'mobility'. For example, look at the SLS iMs; for instance, SLS SE4 iM. In what world would this be a 'mobility' exercise? It certainly is not mobility exercise when compared to something like a leg swing, or any other standard joint mobility drill. Or consider FL PE2 iM; for someone with extremely weak (atrophied, perhaps) glutes, this may be a strength exercise. From my point of view, we simply have paired "movements" that we must master before moving to the next progression.

2 - Do the prescribed set/rep/tempo scheme. This has been verified by either a GB coach or moderator, although I can't find the specific thread to quote at the moment.

As long as its completely controlled you don't have to mirror the athletes tempo in the video but it is what you should absolutely strive towards and get close to as possible. As for the mobility if you truly mastered all the hbp movements in f1 then the mobility should be much easier for you in spl as well. I always thought of the mobility as building flexibility and or strength in unusual ranges of motion. Like Aaron said some mobility will be just that while others who are weaker in that area it will be more strength orientated.

Don't get hung up on it, there is a reason coach laid it out like he did and in the end you will be a ripped beast able to do things that boggle people's minds just thinking about it.

Aaron said:

While it may be prudent to trust in the program and trust in Coach, this does NOT answer Igor's question.

 

 

Well to me it seems as though he is doubting/questioning the program, so I would think my post does answer his question, even if it may be a short answer. 

The bent arm straddle planche is strength oriented for the shoulder girdle and mobility for the hips since the legs are straddled.

gohei_ said:

Well to me it seems as though he is doubting/questioning the program, so I would think my post does answer his question, even if it may be a short answer. 

Ok, let's suppose I missed the innuendo, and he really was doubting/questioning the program...

Him: Guys, I not sure XYZ  makes sense.

You: Don't be silly, of course XYZ makes sense!

Really??? 

Look, I'm not trying to be mean or hostile or anything like that. It's just that Igor was clearly looking to clarify his understanding of the program, and simply replying, essentially, "just have faith" does nothing to help Igor or anyone else reading this.

B1214N said:

The bent arm straddle planche is strength oriented for the shoulder girdle and mobility for the hips since the legs are straddled.

Hrm, so is FL PE3 both strength oriented (for dem abz) and mobility oriented (since the legs are straddled)? So a movement can be both strength AND mobility oriented??? Mind = blown! This just further illustrates that the distinction between strength and mobility elements is, at least some of the time, illusory.

gohei_ said:

Well to me it seems as though he is doubting/questioning the program, so I would think my post does answer his question, even if it may be a short answer. 

I'm not doubting anything, but following programme blindly without understanding it, is not good either, I believe you need to believe in programme to be successful. I am sure that coach has his own reasons, but maybe for some people it would be more productive to train one strength movement at the time, to me it is like bench pressing 150kg x 5 reps, which is pretty much my max, and straight after attempting 140 kg incline bench press, which is not going to happen. In my case, I know I will progress quicker concentrating on one of this elements, but on the other hand maybe I am missing something,  hence the question, maybe I miss something ?, hollow back press in two foundations for prescribed repetitions is not a problem for me, but maybe I should modify programme and train for more endurance? What do you think guys?

Thx

I'm only half way through hbp pe2 and spl pe2 but I can hold that position for 2 second with bad form. lso I think with frog stand it feels less strength requiring and more about balance so it really shouldn't be that taxing especially if you have truly mastered everything up to that point. I'm afraid I can't help with why coach has put everything together the way he has but perhaps if you showed some videos or your current progressions we could make sure you are doing everything right if it is really this hard for you.

I have read elsewhere people struggled a bit with it at first but got the hang of it pretty quickly. Anyway hopefully someone else like coach could fill you in on the details behind the pairing.

My totally unscientific explanation:

Up until the frogstand/ bent arm planche, the sPL progressions have been about joint prep: That is, long holds with generous rest (iM's that do not involve shoulder strength) that have gradually built up connective tissue, but haven't strained the muscles to anywhere near maximum contraction - My point being that 30-60 sec hold will always be sub maximal. So, having laid this initial foundation of connective tissue strength, we are ready to start working - hard!

From here, sPL wil be hard. Coach is now taking the intensity up a notch by effectively removing rest and drastically increasing workload, since the iM is now also strength element. So without ever approaching max contraction, the body is forced to adapt to a higher volume and harder contractions. Note how few sPL progressions there are in F2 - Coach is betting that most people will have to work on these SE's for a long time.

My guess is that we will see a radically increased capacity for actually training FSP's at a meaningful volume using this approach.

This thread may help - https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/12229-bent-arm-half-straddle-planche-hold/