Considerations about perfect XR support and forearm position

Hi guys,

I know that this issue has already been discussed, but i think this topic could be interesting.

I researched for a long time how is the correct position of forearm when in support, l sit and during a dip. According to the basic rule, during the RTO support and l sit the forearm shouldn't touch the ring, but i found a lot of photos and videos where this rule isn't respected even by gymnasts and not only by amateurs. For example there is this picture: http://i.imgur.com/0IshbzV.jpg

or this video: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R5yGlix5YFE

So could it be considered an error? Or it's allowed? And during a dip it's allowed that the forearm touches the ring?

I think the fact of touching or not also depends by the type of false grip. Many people use an exaggerated grip, with the wrist over the ring; i think this video explains clearly the correct false grip: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=imASt9Pp5UI

So, dear friends, what do you think about this topic? Hope you can help me

The important point is that you should not be using your forearms for additional support. The image is an example of unacceptable form. The athlete is appears to be bracing his arms, not just against the rings but also against his hips. The video is fine: while the athlete's forearms are touching the rings, he is clearly not using them for additional support. 

There is no reason to be using a false grip when you are above the rings, unless you happen to be about to lower into a cross or maltese. 

Dips without forearms touching would be a more advanced variation, because it requires you to maintain rings-turned out for the whole ROM. 

In competition I believe you are deducted points for each time your arms touch the rings, so it's not considered perfect but there's no reason we as GST trainees can't initially use a little support so long as we realise that the end goal is to minimize this.

spinelli said:

In competition I believe you are deducted points for each time your arms touch the rings, so it's not considered perfect but there's no reason we as GST trainees can't initially use a little support so long as we realise that the end goal is to minimize this.

Actions become habits. If you're training an L-sit on rings, do it without your forearms touching. 

Ok, so the important thing is to not lean too with forearms to the rings. And what do you think about the type of false grip explained in the last video? Is it correct?

Don't lose sleep over false grip technique. If the form in the video helps you to do an L-sit without touching the rings, then do it that way. 

When doing various ring work would it be beneficial in trying to keep the forearm away from the rings at all times and not just in the static positions?

I remember doing dips that way and it became much much harder but I did not pay attention to if my overall form suffered too much because of it.

Michael's video explanation of a proper false grip (the link listed above) is excellent and completely correct.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach Sommer said:

Michael's video .....

Speaking of old timers, where is he these days?  Have not seen him post publicly in a while...

Ok, thank you! And what do you think about gohei's question? Because i see that there are some gymnasts who touch the upper part of rings with forearm, for exemple during a muscle up or forward roll.

It is of course best for there to be no contact at all; however many are not yet that strong and will encounter some slight contact during the movement. Regardless the beginning and ending positions should always be correct.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Wow, yesterday I finally performed the support without the forearms touching the rings and it was really intense. Today I'm quite sore around my elbows. It makes a huge difference and I'm sure the long term results will be great 

Does the ring support holds train hypertrophy within the biceps?

biceps, forearms , shoulders, chest and much more.

Thank you.

Would you care to explain why?

From my amateur point of view it looks like rings support is just a standard support position, which trains chest, triceps and some shoulder.

your biceps have to contract hard to counteract the tendency to hyperextend your elbows. try for yourself and you will see why. 

i do not think you will gain significant(!) hypertrophy in those regions by ring supports alone though.

I figured it would be easiest to ask in this thread than to start a new one:

If I am feeling pressure on the backs of my elbows (as opposed to the insides, or my biceps) during a support, would that indicate that Im turning my hands too far out for my current level of strength, or what?

I always read that any pressure should be felt on the biceps but I almost always feel it far more on the outsides/backs of my elbows.

gunslinger_burrito said:

If I am feeling pressure on the backs of my elbows (as opposed to the insides, or my biceps) during a support, would that indicate that Im turning my hands too far out for my current level of strength, or what?

That's happened to me too. I think it's just a matter of where your elbows are weakest.

There's a reason ring work isn't recommended until you've finished F4. Rope climbs in particular work this part of the elbow I never even realised needed prepping, but I'm now aware is what holds me back during muscleups.

More specific to support holds: I find L sits require me to actively engage the muscles at the backs of my elbows rather than just passively rest on the architecture there. My support holds have gotten a lot easier on the joints since I mastered the L sit. Ironic, considering I only got the compression necessary for palms flat L sits by doing support holds in the first place...

gunslinger_burrito said:

I figured it would be easiest to ask in this thread than to start a new one:

If I am feeling pressure on the backs of my elbows (as opposed to the insides, or my biceps) during a support, would that indicate that Im turning my hands too far out for my current level of strength, or what?

I always read that any pressure should be felt on the biceps but I almost always feel it far more on the outsides/backs of my elbows.

i'm not that advanced, but i would assume that this would be due to a lack of straight arm strength.  probably don't turn the rings out  until you're straight arm strength is better.

Thanks!

Would a good step back be doing supports on my parallettes (with knees tucked, or in an Lsit?), maybe with the angle turned out a bit? Or would that not target the elbow in the proper manner?

mmm, i guess that would be less stress, because paralletes are more stable than rings.

so, you could either do that, or planche leans.

Ronin168 said:

So, you could either do that, or planche leans.

Wrong part of the elbows. L sits are a better way forward, especially anything involving the hips being in front of the hands.

So you're talking about doing L sits on rings, or on the floor?

If on the floor, it seems to me that the direction of the fingers would make a big difference. I feel at least twice as strong with my fingers pointed forward than backward.

If you have answer for that, at least in regards to elbow strength, etc... I have a thread over in skill development. I don't want to end up hijacking this one.

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/19957-l-sit-hand-position/

Thanks again!

Since  

I plan on going there soon actually

I'm excited!