Shoulder Dislocates

Hi Anthony, 

The problem has not come from your phrasing of the question. We do not recommend individual programs for students. Especially students that are experiencing undiagnosed pain after exercise. A specific diagnosis for your particular issue is best done in person with a specialist like a physio. If yours is unable to provide you with a satisfactory level of care then you are better off spending time finding a more suitable one than looking for a diagnosis on the internet.

20 hours ago, Anthony Sgard said:

Hi, I understand that pain is not normal (-;  but I cannot pinpoint the exact root cause most of the time. My range of motion is very good ( too good they say) in external and internal rotations: if I do the sleeper stretch I can do almost 180 degrees in and out with both sides.  Some say that it is due to my posture - I am a desk worker. I do a lot of external rotation, rotator cuff exercices.

So in other words, to rephrase my initial questions, what would be a workout program to help balancing/strengthening the shoulder muscles ?

How are youre Table Rocks?

I am a physio myself and would recommend you to get a diagnosis not only clinical (by a physio) but also some imaging. It is not always possible to diagnose precisely only by testing a joint.

Once you know exactly that there is no damage on the structures in your shoulder, you may find a good physio who works with you on strenghthening/mobility exercises like the ones in the gst-courses.

Imaging did not say much a couple of months ago. No structural issue: labrum,  girdle,  ligaments  etc OK. Otherwise I would not post on this forum (-;

1 hour ago, Anthony Sgard said:

Imaging did not say much a couple of months ago. No structural issue: labrum,  girdle,  ligaments  etc OK. Otherwise I would not post on this forum (-;

It is not necessarily a structural problem; pain can easily exist without (I can elaborate if necessary).

Reduce the range of motion and loading until you feel no pain. If that is not possible with the dislocates you have to separate the shoulder flexion and extension and build confidence with these before retrying dislocates.

Have you also tried skin the cats? The scapular motion a little different but we are also talking large range of motion shoulder articulation.

EDIT:

You may be able to passively bring your shoulders outside of "ordinary" range of motion, but from your descriptions it seems like the active movements if causing pain. Try microloading these stretches that you are doing. I would also recommend some shoulder relaxation exercises. Can you deadhang without irritation?

Hi 

yep I m the living proof that pain can exist without structural damage.

I tried skin the cat for the first time today using a pullup bar. After a long warm up I gradually completed the movement  - full rotation and back - a couple of times. Shoulders are responding well on this movement - no clicking no pain at all . I felt the stretch in my elbows and muscle pain in the back - I had to take it easy as I am not used to hang from a bar since months .

I also did a couple of table rocks and made sure I squeezed the shoulder blades from the start of the movement.  No issue. 

I will try to do these exercices 2 times a week .. let's see how it goes 

thanks

Tendon tears can happen without previous structural damage, so it is a good idea take on your own the risk of doing exercises out of your level ?

hi Alessandro, do you mean tendon tears at the shoulders or at the elbows? both ? I do a lot of stretching ( wrist, elbow etc.. ) as recommended on the site.  I am focused on listening to my body and fixing little by little my current limitations. Anyhow you are absolutely right it is not a good idea to put the bar too high - that is why I need your advise to tell me what is feasible or not. In the end it is all about my own risk - I m not a beginner in fitness but in gymnastic. That is the reason why I enrolled in this training. What do you suggest apart from going to a good fysio? I would expect to get a progressive plan to help solve my issues and to build "new foundations" .  

Tendons can tears on both insertion on origin and stretching itself does not represent a definitive solution for the prevention. correct intensity on the general physical preparation up to the specific preparation for straight arm work it is the key for the prevention.

It makes sense to me. What do you mean in practice by specific preparation for straight arm work  ? what exercices with incremental difficulties do you see in my case ?

Hi Anthony,

Foundation One and Handstand One contain the straight arm mobility and strength progressions you're looking for. From there, after you've gone to a good physio and are cleared for training, you can submit video reviews/form checks. GB Coaches like Alex and myself will always be there to review footage, answer questions, and keep you progressing safely. Please take advantage of those resources and let us know what your physio says. 

For what it's worth.  I had a shoulder MRI a few years ago that showed no damage.  But I couldn't even lift my arm to brush my teeth.

I went back for another image where they injected dye into my shoulder, which then showed the labrum severely detached.

So imaging is probably reliable, but not always.

Same here. 2MRIs and that labrum tear was not obvious to see. Took the judgement of an experienced surgeon and and athroscopy to confirm and fix it. 

Do the inlocates have any carry over to Korean dip work? I am having trouble with those at the moment, and I am wondering if inlocate have any carry over to that progression? 

I feel pretty smooth with dislocates, and sometimes add up to 10 lbs during warm ups. But inlocates are still pretty tough for me, I can only do them smoothly with a theraband, or with a dowel go to just above my head in order to come back down with strait arms. If I go beyond that I cannot really return to starting position without breaking my elbow. I am wondering the best recommended way to rectify this.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qk5366kd6bn8y6p/IMG_0499.MOV?dl=0

Hello Nathan,

I'm sure Coach Sommer will correct me if I'm wrong, but I can almost guarantee, just like ring rows will have carry over into rope climbing, that in-locates will have carry over into Korean Dips in way or another. Using a dowel or band I find usually depends on how tight the athlete is, if the athlete is extremely tight I prefer that they use a band to minimize and forearm or elbow tweaks, if the athlete is more mobile, I prefer the athlete uses a dowel.

Straight elbows: To take some of the strain off of your wrists (wrists are more than likely the most obvious culprit in the elbow bend), keep the thumb and forefinger tight while relaxing the other fingers (if this makes sense).

Hand width: The ideal hand placement for this movement, we would eventually like to be hand shoulder width (the same width you will be using for handstand).

Keep up the good work!

The dislocate itself it is not enough since it promotes some shoulder extension improvement, they must be implemented into a program that improves also the thoracic extension.

Thank you Luke. For your reply and pointers on progressing with the inlocates. It did not click with me that my wrists might be the main culprit with having to break my strait arm when coming out of the inlocate. I'll keep working this throughout the day at my desk job, and prior to my Foundations training. Thanks again

Hey there,

are there any prerequisites for the dislocates?

I have rolled forward shoulders and bad thoracic mobility and also problems with internal rotation on one side and external rotation on the other.

Is it save to slowly start the dislocates or should I wait till I resolved some of these issues?

Hei Favio yes, the singles component of flexion and extension must be previously mastered. the handstand 1 course gives the correct progression.

I understand, thanks a lot Alessandro.

For anyone currently seeking the clarification...

If my understanding of Coach Sommer's descriptions is correct.

Dislocate is internal (medial) rotation of the upper arm.
_{This happens when you move your arms from the front up over your head, rolling your shoulders forward, and finally down the back.}

Inlocate is external (lateral) rotation of the upper arm.
_{This happens while you move your arms from the back up over your head, rolling your shoulders backward, and finally down the front.}

I had a question regarding dislocates, what is the difference at the shoulder joint between holding the rod at the end of a dislocate (rod behind the back) with a full (pronated) grip versus letting go as I see some people do?   

The stretch on pronator of the wrists and elbows plus some more degrees of upper arm external rotation that leads to superior pec stretch.

Thanks @Alessandro Mainente!