Calorie deficit and its effects on recovery.

So here's where I'm at right now: I'm following F1 on the 4 days a week split, and I'm making steady progress.  I'm eating a large amount of good (quite a bit of it garbage) but I'm also making some definite gains in the muscle department and I'm recovering well.  While my weight isn't increasing, I'm still carrying around maybe 15kg of fat that I'd like gone, since I'm pretty sure everything gets easier when you're not trying to move all that dead weight.

The problem is, while I want to lose the extra weight which in the long term will make my workouts significantly easier, I'm worried that running a calorie deficit will cut into my recovery ability and interfere with my Foundation work.

I'm sure other people here have lost weight while strength training before, and I guess I just want anecdotal evidence that I'm worrying over nothing and I should just suck it up and eat less.

Im currently on a calorie defecit, but for the reason you suggested I've adopted a very subtle one

It's been proven that training to failure is counter productive, particularly on a defecit as you'll end up overtaxing your CNS

Make sure you get enough protein in and you should be fine

First get rid of the garbage in your diet and see how that affects things. 

Joshua Slocum said:

First get rid of the garbage in your diet and see how that affects things. 

^^^^^^

You can do a caloric deficit of course, but assuming you are not in a hurry, I'd try one of two other things first (or both):
-Eat good quality food - cut the garbage
-Try carb cycling (eat starches/grains/dairy products only on your training days and eat other vegetables on off days)

If you manage the calorie deficit well, you can lose the fat nicely - but it could be difficult to do it without taxing your recovery or compromising your metabolic/hormonal state in the long run.
Eating good food and cycling the carbs won't be a quick fix, but it's sustainable, doesn't require any calorie counting or crap like that and is healthy.

Kage said:

-Try carb cycling (eat starches/grains/dairy products only on your training days and eat other vegetables on off days)

Does carb cycling actually work?  I'd considered it before, but given that I train 4-5 days a week, I assumed having that many high carb days kind of ruined the effect...

Bipocni said:

Does carb cycling actually work?  I'd considered it before, but given that I train 4-5 days a week, I assumed having that many high carb days kind of ruined the effect...

Absolutely - But the idea isn't to create high carb days. It's to have low-carb days on the days you don't train heavy.

So in that sense, it is a sort of calorie-restriction - but it's more intuitive. Additionally, it manipulates the insulin response - since insulin is a very anabolic hormone (increases muscle growth and fills up fat cells), you want to use that to your advantage around training and rather keep the insulin levels from peaking on your days with less activity. Like IF, this will also increase your insulin sensitivity over time, which will help your body use that insulin better and help prevent diabetes etc.

So rather lay off the dense carbohydrate sources on your off days and eat normally on your training days.

Last week I dropped my calories too low and I hit a wall during a workout. I also recovered poorly. I was on 2900-3000 a day but dropped to 2700. My maintenance level is around 3300. This week I am back up to 3200-3300 and feel great. However I will not drop any weight at that level.

I am going to try to have 2900 on rest days and 3200 on training days. The fat loss will be slow, but my main priority is to recover well and improve my fitness levels.

sfbaystreetworkout said:

Tell me more about this...NEVER again.

Are you a believer in training to failure? I just stopped that only a little over a week ago and I'm making crazy progress.

I am not a believer in extensive training to failure neither in any hard training under caloric deficit.

This is English miscommunication.

Bipocni said:

Bipocni said:

 I'm still carrying around maybe 15kg of fat that I'd like gone, since I'm pretty sure everything gets easier when you're not trying to move all that dead weight.

 

... I want to lose the extra weight which in the long term will make my workouts significantly easier.

While I would encourage getting a bit leaner if you think you're 15kg above a reasonable recreationally-athletic bf%, you might be surprised how little it appears to benefit your GST and other bodyweight exercises. I dropped 14-16kg last year and saw no benefit to even simple things like pullups. But I certainly couldn't strap 14kg back onto me now and perform just as well. There are various possible explanations for this, but anyway I'm sure in the longer run it's better for each given person to be lighter - within reason.

I tend to look at this whole topic from Alan Aragons perspective. Cutting and bulking is not worth it according to his research. He tends to teach long term strategies in terms of fat loss and muscle gain happening at rhe same time, without going through a loss in strength. For example, one of his middle aged male clients had a 3 year goal and lost ten pounds of fat a year while gaining ten pounds of muscle each year. According to Alan, real fat loss requiers patience over a long period of time. In this process, the fat is not easily gained back and tbe muscle is not easily lost. I always try to remember this when wanting to cut calories drastically. I keep in mind where i was the year before, and where i will be next year, not the month before or a month from now.

RJS said:

I tend to look at this whole topic from Alan Aragons perspective. Cutting and bulking is not worth it according to his research. He tends to teach long term strategies in terms of fat loss and muscle gain happening at rhe same time, without going through a loss in strength. For example, one of his middle aged male clients had a 3 year goal and lost ten pounds of fat a year while gaining ten pounds of muscle each year. According to Alan, real fat loss requiers patience over a long period of time. In this process, the fat is not easily gained back and tbe muscle is not easily lost. I always try to remember this when wanting to cut calories drastically. I keep in mind where i was the year before, and where i will be next year, not the month before or a month from now.

Yeah, this is my belief too. I believe you need to go slow in order to change the body's homeostatic set-point and create a new, lasting composition for your body. And I think the carb-cycling approach where you eat a little less on your off days and proportionally a little more on your heaviest training days are a good way to eat sustainably in order to achieve that. Nothing more complex for a regular athlete.

Hey boys, it's been some time since these posts. Any anecdotal updates/insight on this now? Was the slow route, utilizing carb cycling the best option? I am just now stumbling upon this feed. Thanks.

There's no real solid advice when it comes to weight loss. I say that because the process is extremely individual. One of my brothers can eat 4,000 calories a day and still struggle to keep weight on, whilst for me I need not go above 1500/1700 even when training 3 times a day. 

I suppose the slow route is always best when talking about most things other than racing, where someone needs to finish fast or they lose. When we talk about training we want to remember we are in this for life and must think about the long term at the same time keeping short term goals in mind. Think 50 to 70 years of training and how you can keep that up. 

Fat loss however is always going to be a change for the body and recovery is usually affected, therefore if needing to lose more than ten pounds we should probably go easy on our training while the body adjusts to a new weight. 

Recently having put down powerlifting for good, I went through a 50lb cut and returned to gymnastic training with ease because for most of the cut I was running and doing light body work, long term goals in mind and that was only a 7-month period. Now being 50lbs lighter I can do many skills that I couldn't before and only needed a few weeks to readjust to GB training.