Jefferson Curl Clarification

Hi All,

 

I started doing light Jefferson Curls (only 15lb) following Coach's recommendation.  I've injured my mid-back doing them, so I want to clarify the proper technique.

 

1. Why is it recommended to maintain posterior pelvic tilt as long as possible and to "unroll" one vertebrae at a time?  I would naturally think that it is safer to maintain a straight back, and find that this places more stretch on the hamstrings anyways.  I am wondering if this is why my mid-back went into spasm.

 

2. Should my weight be shifted over my toes or over my heels?  And should the bar track down my legs or in front of them?

 

Thanks for your input!

Hmm, are you certain it is an injury, not just temporary discomfort? Initially, I could also feel some strain in my middle back doing these, but now my back feels amazing post workout, and I'm doing them with a 70 lb kettlebell.

^^^^ had some initial middle back discomfort but after a while, it's gone. 7ft olympic bar here (45lb)

Ravn said:

Hmm, are you certain it is an injury, not just temporary discomfort? Initially, I could also feel some strain in my middle back doing these, but now my back feels amazing post workout, and I'm doing them with a 70 lb kettlebell.

o.0

 

See, that does sound a bit like a recipe for an injury.

Coach says you can go upto 95lb for pike hangs, im guessing it won't be so challenging to scale them upto there safely after a while of active pike work and the hamstring strengthening in the SLS series

Ravn said:

Hmm, are you certain it is an injury, not just temporary discomfort? Initially, I could also feel some strain in my middle back doing these, but now my back feels amazing post workout, and I'm doing them with a 70 lb kettlebell.

Same. Now 2x20kg = 88 lb, and I could easily add more if I had a convenient way to do it.

But you start where you need to start to be comfortable. You can increase the weight anytime, but you can't go back to before a strain or a fall

I'm using a 36kg kettlebell, and I've yet to feel discomfort.

I too was weary at the way the mechanics of this exercise works, but I found that through the proper conditioning and folding from the hips has increased strength and mobility of my hamstrings and mid to lower back.

Hey guys, happy for your achievements with the JC, but let's not turn this into a pissing contest and forget the OP.

The OP, needs to use even less weight, perhaps even starting with no weight and work out the movement.

In general, there are two movement patterns that get a persons hands to the floor, flat back, and spinal roll.

They are completely different patterns, neither is superior when they are understood.

The bottom of the JC is the same as a pike, and is a very natural way to find that position.

Moreover, strengthening the muscles that create the roll have a bulletproofing (prehab) effect. And like any prehab if overloaded or if there is a preexisting issue, injury can result.

Best bet for the OP would be to post video in the appropriate forum to see if there is anything obvious we can help with.

Cole Dano said:

Hey guys, happy for your achievements with the JC, but let's not turn this into a pissing contest and forget the OP.

But I've already been inspired to add some more weight to my Jefferson Curls.  Seems like I might be the first guy to break 100lb!

 

I should mention since I was worried about the spinal mechanics (it's basically a round back deadlift) I've only been lifting about 10lb....

Cole Dano said:

Hey guys, happy for your achievements with the JC, but let's not turn this into a pissing contest and forget the OP.

The OP, needs to use even less weight, perhaps even starting with no weight and work out the movement.

In general, there are two movement patterns that get a persons hands to the floor, flat back, and spinal roll.

They are completely different patterns, neither is superior when they are understood.

The bottom of the JC is the same as a pike, and is a very natural way to find that position.

Moreover, strengthening the muscles that create the roll have a bulletproofing (prehab) effect. And like any prehab if overloaded or if there is a preexisting issue, injury can result.

Best bet for the OP would be to post video in the appropriate forum to see if there is anything obvious we can help with.

Very true. I used to just do pike/straddle compression work and felt a lot of pain, probably from doing it wrong, in my lower and mid back. After a few weeks of the curls, I'm already feeling a difference.

After a while of figuring out the best weight to use I settled on 65 lbs. I started out with a 45 lb Olympic bar, and eventually moved up to 65 lbs as I found it have me the best, deepest stretch. I had previously tried 95 lbs, as I figured if I could deadlift 400 lbs, this should be light enough. Though I discovered that too much weight actually had me "resisting" the weight on the way down and causing me to limit the depth of the stretch, thereby losing the whole point of the movement. I'm someone who's had lower back issues ever since playing college football and I honestly feel Jefferson curls have done a great job "shoring" up and strengthening my back in areas possibly previously neglected. In essence, follow as best you can the description of how to perform the movement from the course.

killroy70 said:

After a while of figuring out the best weight to use I settled on 65 lbs. I started out with a 45 lb Olympic bar, and eventually moved up to 65 lbs as I found it have me the best, deepest stretch. I had previously tried 95 lbs, as I figured if I could deadlift 400 lbs, this should be light enough. Though I discovered that too much weight actually had me "resisting" the weight on the way down and causing me to limit the depth of the stretch, thereby losing the whole point of the movement. I'm someone who's had lower back issues ever since playing college football and I honestly feel Jefferson curls have done a great job "shoring" up and strengthening my back in areas possibly previously neglected. In essence, follow as best you can the description of how to perform the movement from the course.

Aye, from the reading I've been doing on the forums and from the online/pdf book, coach has done a lot of testing and found these specific movements to work best overall. Sure there are other things out there, but for the program we a are given, these combinations of movements and steps are a process that build on one another. I've personally had to drop a lot of "common" knowledge I knew when performing some of the mobility exercises because Ive always been taught they are bad for you... Sure in the fitness world if you are overweight or untrained weighted movements that puts your spine in a compromising position is bad... but the body is designed to adapt with proper the stimulus of training. Just give it time.

User said:

Hi All,

 

I started doing light Jefferson Curls (only 15lb) following Coach's recommendation.  I've injured my mid-back doing them, so I want to clarify the proper technique.

 

1. Why is it recommended to maintain posterior pelvic tilt as long as possible and to "unroll" one vertebrae at a time?  I would naturally think that it is safer to maintain a straight back, and find that this places more stretch on the hamstrings anyways.  I am wondering if this is why my mid-back went into spasm.

 

2. Should my weight be shifted over my toes or over my heels?  And should the bar track down my legs or in front of them?

 

Thanks for your input!

why the posterior tilt? i'm not quite so sure, what i do feel is if i start the descent with my APT(anterior pelvic tilt) i can't roll down at all, it feels super wierd. I imagine it's to get the stretch to be felt on the length of the back muscles(which is where i'm feeling it the most) because to do PPT you need to contract your glutes and that pulls the back of your pelvis downward and your abs contract pulling the front of the pelvis upward

 

for the balance, i'd just get centered. know where you are, if you let the bar track down your leg, you'll have to lean back whereas if you just let it lower down with arms hanging you'll push your hips farther out on the descent, so you'll have to compensate but it won't be much to fuss about. 

A simple way to look at this is that in the JC the movement begins at the top (head) and works it's way down (hips) when doing a flat back hip tilt the movement starts at the bottom (hips) and ends at the top (head).