Are handstand presses essential for learning the planche?

Ok so I realize that handstand presses help towards gaining planche strength, but I really hate training for them and since I am not that flexible and its a lot harder to balance trying to negative from a handstand so I usually fall down - its really frustrating. So, if I just did press handstands (pike and straddle) with my upper back against the wall, wouldn't that basically be developing the same strength as doing them without the wall? And so if one did just do these and never learned freestanding straight arm press handstands, is it still possible to achieve a full planche by just following the progressions? And if it is possible, would it be much harder to learn it this way or is it not that big of a deal never learning them freestanding?

Thanks.

Frahebede said:

Ok so I realize that handstand presses help towards gaining planche strength, but I really hate training for them and since I am not that flexible and its a lot harder to balance trying to negative from a handstand so I usually fall down - its really frustrating. 

 

 

What *is* essential for learning the planche is tenacity. If you have so little determination that a little bit of trouble with presses is enough to make you consider giving up on them, how are you supposed to achieve a much harder skill? Suck it up: develop your pancake flexibility, improve your balance, and learn to press. 

Joshua Slocum said:

What *is* essential for learning the planche is tenacity. If you have so little determination that a little bit of trouble with presses is enough to make you consider giving up on them, how are you supposed to achieve a much harder skill? Suck it up: develop your pancake flexibility, improve your balance, and learn to press. 

Ahh ok i'll still work on the presses, but you still haven't answered my question ;p

Frahebede said:

Ahh ok i'll still work on the presses, but you still haven't answered my question

Correct. 

They aren't essential for learning the planche as such, but there is a lot of overlap back and forth between learning fundamental planche and press mechanics. Joshua's telling you what you need to hear, not what you want-- don't hold it against him, he's American

Yes, it's possible to achieve full planche without having to learn HS or HS presses, but I bet your progress would be better if you had both HS and HS presses. I achieved full planche before having any HS or HS presses, so I can't tell you how much better my progress would have been if I had learned HS and HS presses prior, but listen to Joshua.

B1214N said:

Yes, it's possible to achieve full planche without having to learn HS or HS presses, but I bet your progress would be better if you had both HS and HS presses. I achieved full planche before having any HS or HS presses, so I can't tell you how much better my progress would have been if I had learned HS and HS presses prior, but listen to Joshua.

How long did it take you to get full planche without doing any presses? And after you got it i'm assuming you could do handstand presses and planche presses (straddle) pretty easily without much training, right?

Press HS done correctly is very different from planche. Of course there is somewhat of a carryover but there should not be a significant amount of lean when pressing. Press hs comes from protraction+elevation of the scapula and going onto as perpendicular arms as possible, while planche in general comes from protraction, depression and a heavy forwards lean. The reason people lean in their presses is usually lacking active flex in the shoulders and not having a good enough handstand, but can also be due to bad hip flexibillity. 

Both have their challenges and I know people who can full planche but who have no chance of pressing handstand without doing a planche press, and vice versa. In other words, you wont be getting one from only doing the other. I would advise on treating them as different skills. A planche is great to learn, but dont underestimate the value of a good hanstand. Your press hs will reflect your handstand. From my perspective, the best exercise there is for handbalancing is L sit  pike press to handstand

Frahebede said:

How long did it take you to get full planche without doing any presses? And after you got it i'm assuming you could do handstand presses and planche presses (straddle) pretty easily without much training, right?

It took me about 2 years, but I was only training them on and off and actually took much less time if you only count the times I specifically trained for them. I can do straddle planche presses and am strong enough to do full planche presses as well after I learned how to balance on a HS for a short time. I can't do press HS due to flexibility issues and I never trained them yet. My HS is also not a proper gymnastics HS as the shoulder angle is not fully opened and my lower back slightly arched. I plan to sign up for a local gymnastics facility access and adult classes soon so I can do my H1 workouts and learn other gymnastics skills.

Jon Douglas said:

They aren't essential for learning the planche as such, but there is a lot of overlap back and forth between learning fundamental planche and press mechanics. Joshua's telling you what you need to hear, not what you want-- don't hold it against him, he's American

Ouch!

Handbalancer said:

Press HS done correctly is very different from planche. Of course there is somewhat of a carryover but there should not be a significant amount of lean when pressing. Press hs comes from protraction+elevation of the scapula and going onto as perpendicular arms as possible, while planche in general comes from protraction, depression and a heavy forwards lean. The reason people lean in their presses is usually lacking active flex in the shoulders and not having a good enough handstand, but can also be due to bad hip flexibillity. 

 

Both have their challenges and I know people who can full planche but who have no chance of pressing handstand without doing a planche press, and vice versa. In other words, you wont be getting one from only doing the other. I would advise on treating them as different skills. A planche is great to learn, but dont underestimate the value of a good hanstand. Your press hs will reflect your handstand. From my perspective, the best exercise there is for handbalancing is L sit  pike press to handstand

Perfect answer.  

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer