Hinge row problems/going backwards

Hello,

I've been progressing quite nicely in most of the exercises, but I seem to be completely stuck in RC/PE1.

For a significant length of time i was unable to get through the first micro cycle getting stuck on the 3x6r on the third week. Then i had a 6 week break from foundations training and after that i managed to complete the first microcycle, only to get stuck on the first week of the second microcycle.

Now even worse it seems that while trying the first week of second microcycle i'm even unable to get to the 3x6r.

So i seem to have two different problems.

1) is there something to help me get forwards in the PE1

2) what should i do when i seem to go backwards in progression, humbly go back to the first microcycle?

Reading the discussions about the hinge row it also seems that i might be doing something wrong... still quite baffled, it just seems like a dead end. As many others have stated it feels like the pe2 is way easier...

is it possible for you to post a video? 

because what you've described is somewhat something i've gone through in the sudden drops in volume have been due to the following:

1. lifting butt off floor

2. pulling down with elbows 

3. removing assistance from abs

4. improving quality of iM (gripping stallbar and sitting back) 

so it can be from a number of reasons! if it's possible for you post a vid, we can get you sorted  

Just don't overthink it too much the important thing here is to ensure that you can do the movement correctly, and hence using the correct muscles. yes for mastery your butt should be off the floor and yes PE2 appears a lot easier. 
My advice would be to build up some endurance in the move with a little less weight on your hands than you are now using then once you've completed one cycle like that take some more weight off your butt. Might take you a few cycles (like it certainly did for me) but it's the right way to go.

A video would be good if possible also

Edit: Do ensure that the rest of your form is good as Keilani says

Well it might be hard for me to do a video but yes it seems i'm doing it somewhat completely wrong, but of from the floor (tho not sure how much difference there is in but up or with no weight on the but, but touching the floor). also i guess iäm not pulling down and last but not least just found out that in addition to getting the whole pe1 originally in a completely wrong way (but on the floor with weight on it) i seem to have been doing the im wron (30s with two arms instead of one).... So it seems i'm back at the beginning with rc... craaaps.

Anyhow so that settles the first question i guess. the second one is still valid. what to do when you seem to go backwards (as i did with the wrongly done pe1). sometimes this is hard to see if there is jump in volumes per set but for example from week3 of first microcycle to week 1 of second the volume per set remains the same just number of sets changes. as such i once did the 3x6 succesfully (and i think it wasn't even too hard) but then trying to finish the 4x6r was unable to do even the 3 first sets.

hukka said:

Well it might be hard for me to do a video but yes it seems i'm doing it somewhat completely wrong, but of from the floor (tho not sure how much difference there is in but up or with no weight on the but, but touching the floor). also i guess iäm not pulling down and last but not least just found out that in addition to getting the whole pe1 originally in a completely wrong way (but on the floor with weight on it) i seem to have been doing the im wron (30s with two arms instead of one).... So it seems i'm back at the beginning with rc... craaaps.

 

Anyhow so that settles the first question i guess. the second one is still valid. what to do when you seem to go backwards (as i did with the wrongly done pe1). sometimes this is hard to see if there is jump in volumes per set but for example from week3 of first microcycle to week 1 of second the volume per set remains the same just number of sets changes. as such i once did the 3x6 succesfully (and i think it wasn't even too hard) but then trying to finish the 4x6r was unable to do even the 3 first sets.

the iM you do it with one arm each. 30 sec on each hand. (so there's no confusion there)

also, have you been deloading? 

KeilaniG said:

the iM you do it with one arm each. 30 sec on each hand. (so there's no confusion there)

also, have you been deloading? 

well i never noticed it is with one arm (the angle of the video might not be the best for that ... so iäve been doing 30s with two arms.

but yes been deloading. 

So it's the form here, as i said been doing it wrong (again). Somehow this particular move seems to be very confusing to do right.

spinelli said:

Just don't overthink it too much the important thing here is to ensure that you can do the movement correctly, and hence using the correct muscles. yes for mastery your butt should be off the floor and yes PE2 appears a lot easier. 

My advice would be to build up some endurance in the move with a little less weight on your hands than you are now using then once you've completed one cycle like that take some more weight off your butt. Might take you a few cycles (like it certainly did for me) but it's the right way to go.

A video would be good if possible also

Edit: Do ensure that the rest of your form is good as Keilani says

So you say it might be a good idea to not get the weight away from the glutes? That would of course help and in the beginning i did about that, with almost whole weight on glutes (but still pulling with arms not doing a situp). That seemed to be very easy. then i found out it's supposed to go with no weight on the glutes, which was very hard. What still esacpes me how is this easier if the glutes are on the ground with no weight from holding them up the whole time?

and saying not to overthink it seems a bit failing choice for me, as it seems that when i just try to do it i do it wrong

your glutes might touch the floor at the top portion of the movement depending on your torso length, the point is that you are not actively sitting, you're glutes just happen to be in contact with the floor. Does this make sense?

A useful cue I found is to try and keep the back as flat as possible and bend at the hips, not in the abdomen, you should notice that you're really feeling it in the lats if it's done right. Also really do make sure you give the stall bar a good squeeze, you'll curse now but be grateful you did once the volume ramps up

Try putting a little weight on your glutes, not all enough so that 3x6 is a challange but not so much that you don't feel totally wiped out after completing the set. Keep doing it like this until you've got to week 12 then come back to week 3 (repeat week 3 thrice followed by week 4 once before moving onto week 5) but this time take a little more weight off your glutes. repeat until mastery is achieved 

spinelli said:

your glutes might touch the floor at the top portion of the movement depending on your torso length, the point is that you are not actively sitting, you're glutes just happen to be in contact with the floor. Does this make sense?

A useful cue I found is to try and keep the back as flat as possible and bend at the hips, not in the abdomen, you should notice that you're really feeling it in the lats if it's done right. Also really do make sure you give the stall bar a good squeeze, you'll curse now but be grateful you did once the volume ramps up

Try putting a little weight on your glutes, not all enough so that 3x6 is a challange but not so much that you don't feel totally wiped out after completing the set. Keep doing it like this until you've got to week 12 then come back to week 3 (repeat week 3 thrice followed by week 4 once before moving onto week 5) but this time take a little more weight off your glutes. repeat until mastery is achieved 

Sounds like a plan.

It still baffles me why it is better to have the but close to floor instead of for example keeping it 10cm up in the air (except for this suggestion of first doing it with some weight on the glutes)

spinelli said:

A useful cue I found is to try and keep the back as flat as possible and bend at the hips, not in the abdomen, you should notice that you're really feeling it in the lats if it's done right. Also really do make sure you give the stall bar a good squeeze, you'll curse now but be grateful you did once the volume ramps up

 

By the way don't have the stall bar so i'm using the backside of a stair (the same ones i hang my rings on), so i am really grasping it as i cannot wrap my hand around it. sometimes i have done this with a underhand grip from the backside in order not to have to grasp so heavily bu ti guess i'll just have to stop that. Also i've been goin much lower with the im than on the video, not sure how will that affect. remains to be seen. It's nicely now a deload week so i guess i have a week to do some try's instead of again failing it .

I think it might have something to do with the mechanics of the move, also you want to keep your butt stationary relative to your feet so that you hinge correctly and as you've said the move can be progressively loaded.

Anyway that's enough of that dangerous thinking for one day. Back to training!

yep yep have to check these today (also how does the 2x30s help)

you'll see 

For your question on moving backwards if you fail a microcycle. What I usually do is, say I fail week 11, then I'll go back to week 9 after the deload. But if I fail immediately at week 9, I'll keep doing week 9 until deload, then restart to see if I can get over week 9 again, until I can...Now if I fail week 10, I stay on week 10 until deload, then I restart from week 9.

So basically, I stay on my current failed week until deload, then I'll restart the cycle from the beginning.

To clarify i failed week 3 (which i had previously passed) while trying week 5.

Not the oh so normal for me just failing the new week.

18 posts = too much talking, please post a video so we can help

FredInChina said:

18 posts = too much talking, please post a video so we can help

As i said it's actually quite hard for me to get a video for few reasons. Anyhow tried some hints on my current week (deload) and at least it felt easier. The key seems to be pulling elbow's down instead of trying to pull hands to shoulders. When i try to pull elbows down the pull goes more to lats than when just pulling hands to shoulders. The movement is quite fast now tho, but i understood from some other chain that the 2s per direction is not so important on the beginning exercises where the volume is quite big, so this might not be a problem.