Started by The Silverback, October 5, 2013 · 13 Replies · 9,666 Views
Me and my aunt got in an argument about who is stronger, the guys on worlds strongest men or from it, like Big Z, Kaz, Magnus Samuelsson, Pudzianowski, Phil Pfister, etc. Or world class elite gymnasts?
Now I know they are different an all and this is a gymnasts board, but I come here to ask because I do not know much about gymnastics.
gram for gram, a gymnast is stronger. But they can't perform feats like a 700lb bench press or similar feats in the atlas stones ect...
It comes down to moving internal weight versus moving external weight.
For me, it's an interesting comparison to draw for several reasons. First, both gymnasts and strongmen have to prepare themselves for a wide variety of events. For example a gymnast has to prepare for rings, pommel horse, parallel bars, high bars, vault etc. This means that they have to undergo the physical preparation specific to each apparatus, as well as learn the skill set for each. It is because of this that I consider gymnasts to be some of the most highly skilled athletes in any sport, because they articulate their athleticism in an extremely diverse set of ways.
Strongmen also have to prepare for a wide variety of events that all have different techniques and favor different strengths. As a strongman, you can pretty much count on some sort of overhead pressing, carry, deadlift, and atlas stones, but the events vary between competitions and the athletes don't know what events they will be facing when they are preparing their training cycles.
The second reason I find it an interesting comparison is that both gymnasts and strongmen need to have sustained power output. For a gymnasts rings routine, the repeatedly pass through planche, iron and maltese crosses, handstands, and withstand the forces of the swinging transitions between static positions. As a result, their muscles are under tension for the majority of a rings routine. Strongmen also must sustain power output over time. Most strongmen events are not max effort, but rather strength endurance. For example a farmer carry, or a log press or deadlift for max reps is a matter of strength endurance, and sustaining a high power output for extended periods of time.
The most obvious difference between the two is the matter of strength to weight ratio. I think it probably goes without saying that gymnasts are stronger pound for pound, but I don't think it's a very fair comparison to draw. For me, the ring routine of Chen Yibing is equally as impressive as watching Derek Poundstone deadlift 800 for reps, or log press 300 over ten times.
The athletes I find most intriguing are not the world champions, but the athletes that manage to excel despite being at a biomechanical disadvantage in their sport. For example, as a GST enthusiast that is 6' tall and weighs about 190 lbs, I have a ton of admiration for gymnasts like Israel's Alexander Shatilov, who at over 6' has competed in the olympics and done extremely well, competing against gymnasts nearly a foot shorter than him. Another good example is England's Christian Thomas, who at 5'11" performs crosses and straddle planches on rings. My favorite example of a mechanically disadvantaged athlete in strongman is Pius Ochieng, a Kenyan weighlifter who competed in the 1984 WSM in Mora, Sweden. Besides coming from a country with very little weightlifting culture and resources, he managed to complete events that were designed for men weighing 100lbs more than him.
All in all, I have managed to go on quite the rant without answering your questions. I think my opinion is that strongmen are stronger, and gymnasts are more highly skilled. That said I don't like to say that one or the other is stronger because one sport favors strength to weight ratio, while the other favors max strength. Regardless, I have an enormous amount of respect for anyone who reaches a high level in either sport.
Strongmen and powerlifters are stronger in the absolute terms. Pound for pound gymnasts are probably stronger but strongmen and other strength athletes tend to have more than enough pounds to make up for that. Also don't forget that gymnastics is shoulder girdle oriented whereas most strength sports are hip dominant, so the ideal build for one sport is not the ideal build for the other.
Absolute strength however is not the objective of gymnastics. Ultimately a 1000+ pound deadlift will not give you an iron cross and neither will an iron cross get you close to that deadlift.
Lb for lb, gymnast.
Pure strength, Powerlifter. I would lean to someone who lifts raw ( knee wraps/sleeves, wraps ok but not a suit or support underwear ) .
Quite possibly Misha Kolkayev. Supertotal + StrongMan. Not the best Strongman I think though. Zydrunas Savickas is, I think.
You can't compare strongmen and gymnasts. Both at elite levels do amazing things.
Internal weight: gymnasts (men's artistic), shaolin monks and circus performers
external weight: powerlifters, olympic weightlifters and strongmen.
everyone says that weightlifters are inferior in regard to strength to weight ratio. I do think that gymnasts have the best STW ratio but that gives the impression that weightlifters have bad STW ratios, which is not the case. Lamar Gant lifted 634 raw at a bodyweight of 123, over 5x bodyweight. Most top raw lifters squat and deadlift 4x bodyweight, closer to 3-3.5 in the heavier weight classes. 123 isn't far off the weight of most elite gymnasts, and I haven't heard of any gymnasts that deadlift 4 to 5 times bodyweight. Obviously that comparison goes both ways, because elite weightlifters can't do iron or maltese crosses. And of course skill plays a big part in both sports. My point is that a lot of elite weightlifters have incredible strength to weight ratios, and they often don't get credit for it outside of the lifting community, where people think they are all 300lbs behemoths.
Tyler Gibson said:everyone says that weightlifters are inferior in regard to strength to weight ratio. I do think that gymnasts have the best STW ratio but that gives the impression that weightlifters have bad STW ratios, which is not the case. Lamar Gant lifted 634 raw at a bodyweight of 123, over 5x bodyweight. Most top raw lifters squat and deadlift 4x bodyweight, closer to 3-3.5 in the heavier weight classes. 123 isn't far off the weight of most elite gymnasts, and I haven't heard of any gymnasts that deadlift 4 to 5 times bodyweight. Obviously that comparison goes both ways, because elite weightlifters can't do iron or maltese crosses. And of course skill plays a big part in both sports. My point is that a lot of elite weightlifters have incredible strength to weight ratios, and they often don't get credit for it outside of the lifting community, where people think they are all 300lbs behemoths.
Couldn't have been said better. What could a gymnast do that equates to lifting 4-5x their own weight?
Here's something for thought, there are 3 kinds of strength,
Static Strength -contracting a muscle in a fixed spot, location or immovable object.
Eccentric Strength - when a muscle is stretching from resistance, like lowering a weight. the negative portion
Concentric strength- Muscle contracting, or shortening.
static strength is 20% greater than concentric strength, eccentric strength is 40% greater than concentric strength
To state one type of strength is superior one must consider the variables. lowering 700lbs is 40% harder than lifting it, which is why powerlifters and olympic lifters drop after a lift. So one must ask absolute strength in what? Concentric strength?
For me gymnasts and lifters have a lot of all three kinds of strength. Obviously gymnast ring routines have a big emphasis on concentric strength, but powerlifters are by no means purely eccentric. In the squat and bench press they have to lower the weight and press it up. Lee Moran, Dave Waddington, Kirk Karwoski and Ed Coan have all squatted over 1000 lbs in equipment that is raw by todays standards, so they are incredibly strong in both eccentric and concentric. Regardless of the type of strength, I think we all pretty much agree that for all intensive purposes it's kind of pointless to compare the two, as there's no objective way to compare the strength levels of both athletes. All I know is they both blow my mind with their strength, and I'll be happy if I reach have the strength level of most elite gymnasts or powerlifters.
I agree that we cannot compare, obviously the one trained specifically for their sport will excel at it.
Its like asking who is stronger, mike tyson or ronnie coleman... How do you answer that? in a fight? lifting weights? strength is relative to the application in which it is used.
MattProulx said:I agree that we cannot compare, obviously the one trained specifically for their sport will excel at it.
Its like asking who is stronger, mike tyson or ronnie coleman... How do you answer that? in a fight? lifting weights? strength is relative to the application in which it is used.
Well ronnie is stronger, fighting is more skill and technique
Tyler Gibson said:For me, it's an interesting comparison to draw for several reasons. First, both gymnasts and strongmen have to prepare themselves for a wide variety of events. For example a gymnast has to prepare for rings, pommel horse, parallel bars, high bars, vault etc. This means that they have to undergo the physical preparation specific to each apparatus, as well as learn the skill set for each. It is because of this that I consider gymnasts to be some of the most highly skilled athletes in any sport, because they articulate their athleticism in an extremely diverse set of ways.
Strongmen also have to prepare for a wide variety of events that all have different techniques and favor different strengths. As a strongman, you can pretty much count on some sort of overhead pressing, carry, deadlift, and atlas stones, but the events vary between competitions and the athletes don't know what events they will be facing when they are preparing their training cycles.
The second reason I find it an interesting comparison is that both gymnasts and strongmen need to have sustained power output. For a gymnasts rings routine, the repeatedly pass through planche, iron and maltese crosses, handstands, and withstand the forces of the swinging transitions between static positions. As a result, their muscles are under tension for the majority of a rings routine. Strongmen also must sustain power output over time. Most strongmen events are not max effort, but rather strength endurance. For example a farmer carry, or a log press or deadlift for max reps is a matter of strength endurance, and sustaining a high power output for extended periods of time.
The most obvious difference between the two is the matter of strength to weight ratio. I think it probably goes without saying that gymnasts are stronger pound for pound, but I don't think it's a very fair comparison to draw. For me, the ring routine of Chen Yibing is equally as impressive as watching Derek Poundstone deadlift 800 for reps, or log press 300 over ten times.
The athletes I find most intriguing are not the world champions, but the athletes that manage to excel despite being at a biomechanical disadvantage in their sport. For example, as a GST enthusiast that is 6' tall and weighs about 190 lbs, I have a ton of admiration for gymnasts like Israel's Alexander Shatilov, who at over 6' has competed in the olympics and done extremely well, competing against gymnasts nearly a foot shorter than him. Another good example is England's Christian Thomas, who at 5'11" performs crosses and straddle planches on rings. My favorite example of a mechanically disadvantaged athlete in strongman is Pius Ochieng, a Kenyan weighlifter who competed in the 1984 WSM in Mora, Sweden. Besides coming from a country with very little weightlifting culture and resources, he managed to complete events that were designed for men weighing 100lbs more than him.
All in all, I have managed to go on quite the rant without answering your questions. I think my opinion is that strongmen are stronger, and gymnasts are more highly skilled. That said I don't like to say that one or the other is stronger because one sport favors strength to weight ratio, while the other favors max strength. Regardless, I have an enormous amount of respect for anyone who reaches a high level in either sport.
Was a good read 