Combining WOD archive with Foundation 2

Hey guys, 

So I just purchased Foundation 2 and was starting to program my workout, and I've noticed that my workout wouldn't be very long if I just included what I do for handbalancing in conjunction with the foundation exercises. Anyone object to doing the old WOD after completing all the foundation exercises? 

I do. The wods are a more advanced workout. And should not be worked seriously I too you have finished foundation and probably some courses to come.

Daniel Burnham said:

I do. The wods are a more advanced workout. And should not be worked seriously I too you have finished foundation and probably some courses to come.

That's funny you say that considering I've been doing the WOD for a couple of years... 

So have many including me. That doesn't mean I was really ready for them. Focus on foundation get that done and then return. The wods are not nearly as effective when you can't do the progressions correctly. There is a reason coach released foundation series and discontinued the wods.

I'm sure a lot of people are annoyed by people who ask questions and then argue when they are given an answer, but I have to admit I'm not following your logic. Sure, I agree that there are some WODs that I'm not able to complete at the maximum level  - especially since I don't have a planche; that being said, I do have Front Lever/Back Lever and can do all the exercises that are in WOD. I found the WODs to be very effective... and that's why I enjoy doing them. I believe Coach Sommer has said in the past that his athletes do WOD as supplemental to their other conditioning. Before Foundation came out I was even told to do WOD after my Manna/Maltese/Iron cross/V training. I mean could it really hurt progression progress?

Here is the thing. Until you have mastered the progressions in the foundation series you are best served by doing those. I have no doubt the wod will give progress they are good workouts for those properly prepared. The foundation series is the answer to many not having a proper background of strength. Even some very strong gymnasts have found the foundation series helpful.

To be honest, I just don't get this obsession with Foundation series (it is good program though). Whenever somebody asks a question, all answers are about buying and following Foundation series. You have to realize that many people have been training for a long time and are pretty strong and capable to do WODs. F series just fixes some gaps in their preparation.

Most of the exercises in F1 and F2 are pretty basic (-> foundation) and some people just need some more work. More work doesn't always equal to better results, but some people can still benefit from it. Some elements are also more technique based than strength based...

Don't forget all the benefits the mobility part brings in

The mobility in F1 and sometimes in F2 is pretty basic too (not everything but most of it). I like F series because they tell me what to do and I don't have to worry about any programming. I am just saying that people with some sport background who already know and are capable of performing the PEs and iMs could do some more work and it won't hinder their progress at all.

I see Daniel's point but if Kolacz has no problem with completing WODs with a good form, I can't see any reason why he shouldn't try it and see how it feels.

MMarty said:

The mobility in F1 and sometimes in F2 is pretty basic too (not everything but most of it). I like F series because they tell me what to do and I don't have to worry about any programming. I am just saying that people with some sport background who already know and are capable of performing the PEs and iMs could do some more work and it won't hinder their progress at all.

If someone can already do all the PE's and iM's well enough to pass the mastery tests, then they can and should be moving to harder elements in the progressions. If they can't pass the mastery test, then their time is best spent on working the deficient elements.

The main reason not to be adding a significant amount of supplemental work on top of Foundation is that if you're able to handle a lot more strength training volume, you should be using that to do more Foundation work. For the vast majority of people, there is no good reason to be adding further rings work on top of F1/F2.

MMarty said:

To be honest, I just don't get this obsession with Foundation series (it is good program though). Whenever somebody asks a question, all answers are about buying and following Foundation series. You have to realize that many people have been training for a long time and are pretty strong and capable to do WODs. F series just fixes some gaps in their preparation.

 

Most of the exercises in F1 and F2 are pretty basic (-> foundation) and some people just need some more work. More work doesn't always equal to better results, but some people can still benefit from it. Some elements are also more technique based than strength based...

I think the point is that if these people are as conditioned as they believe themselves to be, they ought to be able to demonstrate mastery of the Foundation elements.  If they can't, they'd be well served by dropping the other training until they can.  

This is mostly conjecture on my part, but I imagine that that majority of people asking questions here (as opposed to answering them only) could stand some quality time with Foundation elements.  There probably are people in the amateur gymnastics world who are beyond Foundation level training, but I tend to think that these people have relatively few occasions to ask a question on an internet gymnastics forum.  

I understand it, but you probably don't understand me. Foundation says that you shouldn't progress to another exercise until you master both PE and iM.

Now imagine this situation: somebody is able to do V-ups, all kinds of Hanging Leg Raises, etc. but he still can't do Stiff Leg Windmill (due to bad shoulder mobility or whatever). According to F series he should do Tuck-Ups until he master Stiff Leg Windmills but they don't fell challenging at all. Why couldn't he do few sets of Hanging Leg Raises?

Or this situation: I had no problem with most of dips in F1 and F2 but I struggled with PPP - 4x4reps, 4x6reps, etc. fell kind of easy but week 9-> was too much so I just did some dips after the workout without any recovery problems.

I know these situations aren't like Kolacz's problem/question but I want to point out that everybody is different and he may benefit from more work (... or not).

It's been said quite a few times that if you have some moves that are more advanced than where you are in Foundation, you should perform 1 or 2 maintenance sets around your workout (can't remember it was before or after, but I'd imagine it would be before).

If you have HLLs, of course you can do a few. So basically, rather than actually combine F/H and the WODs, just practice the more advanced moves you and focus on F/H, be it for mobility, addressing strength gaps or muscle endurance.

Do maintenance sets after. You should have f1 as your main focus first then you can try and maintain greater progressions. Just don't neglect anything in f1 or let your progress of that stall due to maintenance of other progressions.

Joshua Slocum said:

The main reason not to be adding a significant amount of supplemental work on top of Foundation is that if you're able to handle a lot more strength training volume, you should be using that to do more Foundation work. For the vast majority of people, there is no good reason to be adding further rings work on top of F1/F2.

Any suggestions on how to add more Foundation work? Due to my work schedule, I do the 3 day split of Foundation and can't really add another day at the moment. Is there a proper way I could add more Foundation work to the days that I'm already exercising?

You could

- run M and F with the whole Foundation workout (f7) and devote wed to mobility drills. You could also do 3*F7 (MWF) once you are confident you can handle.and benefit from that volume

-purchase H1 and add it to your current days

Jon Douglas said:

You could

- run M and F with the whole Foundation workout (f7) and devote wed to mobility drills. You could also do 3*F7 (MWF) once you are confident you can handle.and benefit from that volume

-purchase H1 and add it to your current days

I like this suggestion.  Particularly the part about "handle and benefit from that volume".  I found that I could handle doing each F workout 3X/week, but I seem to be benefitting more from 2X/week at this stage of my conditioning.  

Interestingly, I also found that F7 was a bit more of a beatdown than I can handle at a time.  I wonder if being able to complete F7 workouts (handling and benefitting from them) is a good prerequisite for bumping up to training each element 3X/week.  For example, going from training the Foundation split 2X/week for each day, then on to F7 2X/week, then eventually adding an additional day of F7 once one is up to it.  Or perhaps some general variation thereof.

My basic interest is in the revelation I've had recently regarding optimal training volume vs. what one can struggle through.  Thanks to the guidance of senior forum members I've found that I was overshooting optimal with my volume.  That said, I'm interested in increasing my capacity in order to be able to complete F7 workouts (which, given the manner in which the elements are tested, seems like a good conditioning benchmark for which to aim), so I'm wondering what role moving from split to full F7 sessions might play in one's increasing work capacity.

Sorry, M and Thurs would be better if your schedule allows it-- more equal distribution