One arm pullups progression - how many pullups?

Hey all, I have a question regarding one arm pullups:

Before I start, I need to tell you guys where I am at atm. So here is what I have been doing:

In a week, I do: 4 days H1 and 2 days F7. I split F7 into FSAS on one day and FBAS + FLS on another. In short, in a week I do 4 days of H1 and 4 days of split F7.

In addition, I do some pushups and pullups every other day. I do on average 100-120 pullups on M, W, and F. One of my goals is to be able to do perfect one arm pullup. I realize that 100-120 pullups in a day could be too much and a little useless. It may build endurance, but building pullup endurance is not the goal. Instead I need to increase my pull up strength instead.

Right now I can do one hand assisted pullups (that's where you grab the bar with one hand and use the other hand, placed on biceps of the hand gripping the bar to pull yourself up). I can do 5-6 reps of biceps assisted pullups and 1-2 reps of deltoids assisted pullups (this one is where I grip the bar with my right hand and my left hand would grab delts of my right hand and pull myself up). 

I was wondering how many pullups do I need to do in order to progress to (eventually) one arm unassisted pullup? I think the reason why I have not progressed (I have been stuck at 1-2 reps of delt- assisted pullups for 2 months now) might have been because I am not giving myself enough rest. 

Is anyone training for one arm pullups? If so, how are you guys' progressions? How many sets and reps? What are your progression movements? How much training do you guys do weekly?

First of all don't say you're doing F7.  F7 would be all seven exercises in F1 performed in the one workout.  You're doing F1, with an unusual split.  Also I have to question why you don't follow the split as described in the program?  I remember coach saying in BtGB that people progress much faster on straight arm strength if they pair it with bent arm strength (during the same workout.)

Not trying to be disrespectful or anything, just genuinely curious as to your reasoning behind your current split.

Try to work your pullups in a different manner every workout.  One strength and conditioning coach who I respect a lot would cycle his work so he would do:

Monday: Weighted chin ups and pullups using various hand positions

Wednesday: Two arm pullups and chin ups for high reps

Friday: One arm chin up progressions

Sunday: Weighted chin ups and pullups using various hand positions

Tuesday: One arm chin up progressions

Thursday: Two arm pullups and chin ups for high reps

Saturday: One arm chin up progressions

Monday: Repeat.

General consensus around here is that learning how to climb a rope will develop decent one arm pulling strength, so you might have to factor that in somehow.  I know the guy I mentioned is really good at rope climbs as well, but he made no reference to it in his one arm chinning guide.

If you can't do say, 20 or so dead hang pullups you probably shouldn't be training for a one arm pullup.  Getting up to +50% bodyweight weighted pullups is a great start as well.  Try doing pullups off a towel to build more grip strength on high rep days because grip strength is very important for the one arm pullup.  If you can hang with one arm off a doubled over towel on your pullup bar for say 30 seconds or so you have more than enough grip strength.  Try hanging a towel off the bar and pulling with one arm on the bar and one arm holding onto the towel.  As you get stronger, move the assisting arm lower down the towel.  Another good one is to pullup with two arms, let go with one and hold the top position for time.  Also if you have really decent pulling strength (say, 90% bodyweight weighted chins) you can work with one arm negatives.  A full lay front lever is supposed to be around 90% of the pulling strength of a one arm pullup, so that's a good indicator of how hard it is.  Obviously there isn't perfect carryover.

Be careful you don't hurt yourself.  A lot of people get tendonitis training for the one arm pullup.  If your joints or tendons hurt, it's probably a good idea to take a few days off.  If you have rings, try to train some exercises that involve external rotation to build up the brachioradialis muscle.  It will help protect your elbow.

If you're doing Foundation 4 days a week and you're training pullups 3 days a week, it sounds like you're not giving yourself many rest days.  Try to have a day off from pulling after every workout.  More rest days = more chance to grow and heal.

No amount of pullups will allow you to move on to the one-arm pullup. The jump in difficulty is too great. You'll need to perform progressively more and more difficult pulling exercises to build up your maximal strength. 

Right now you're doing far too much pulling work, and that's what's causing you to plateau. Foundation's rope-climb work alone is enough to achieve a OAP, and you're adding a ton of volume on top of that. 

I would recommend doing just Foundation, as completing the RC progressions will provide you with much needed tendon-preparation and mobility work.

If you feel the need to do some dedicated OAP work, I would keep it to a minimum. Do 1-2 sets of deltoid pullups on the same day you do RC work, *after* you've finished Foundation work for the day. Once the deltoid pullups become easy, you can move on to OAP negatives, and eventually just straight-up OAP's. 

I can't speak for the program, but I got one arm pulls just by doing negatives.

So you're only having one rest day a week?  It seems to me that you're setting yourself up for tendontitis, but your mileage may vary.

But don't say I didn't warn you...

I was reading this part and I did not see any rest at all. 

Monday: Weighted chin ups and pullups using various hand positions

Wednesday: Two arm pullups and chin ups for high reps

Friday: One arm chin up progressions

Sunday: Weighted chin ups and pullups using various hand positions

Tuesday: One arm chin up progressions

Thursday: Two arm pullups and chin ups for high reps

Saturday: One arm chin up progressions

Monday: Repeat.

 

But I guess I am going to readjust the volumes again haha 

How much rest do you think one needs? I don't want to undertrain, but I don't want to overtrain either. Also taking into consideration everyone has different recovery speed... there seems to me too many unknown variables to create a perfect, specific workout plan. Is there a thumb rule to relate the intensity of workout and amount of rest?

Like for example, if one does x total reps in one day, he needs to rest the next day (or even next 2 days), but if one only does y total reps in one day, doing z amount of reps the next day will help him to progress, etc etc. How do you guys relate resting with total workout intensity?

Some people tend to under train, I am one of those people who plateau because I over train doing too many unnecessary reps =\. 

And thanks for the input guys  I am seriously learning a lot 

The only way to know if you're over or under training is to take an active role in observing yourself over the course of many weeks. See how you respond to different training regimens. 

At the risk of sounding like broken record, there's very little you need to do in addition to Foundation work, and in fact anything you add on top of that is likely to be counterproductive given your propensity for over-training.. 

What's the point in 100-120 pull-ups a day?

^ I recently (few months ago) heard about this football/ mma named Herschell Walker. He does hundreds/ thousands of pushups, pullups, and various abs a day in addition to other training. Obviously I am no beast like him, so I did a small fraction of his volume to see what effect will it do to an ordinary layman. I noticed it increased my endurance a lot and toned my body greatly. But in terms of maximal strength and skill progression, it does almost nothing.

However, my goal right now is to achieve certain skills, not doing as many reps in one set, so I need to change that haha.

In addition to that, the reason why I persistently asked whether I can do other workouts in addition to F7+H1 is that I started off with more endurance than the program assumed (I think it is due to the high volume training I did previously) and I "feel" like doing F7+H1 alone is not enough (I do not "feel" the soreness I usually feel). That's why I felt confident adding a moderate amount of workout in addition fo F7+H1. 

I think the keyword here is "feel." I have to stop analyzing by mere feelings alone and actually observe the result. I need to give it some time to let my body adjust doing lower reps exercise. I am starting to believe that this is why it has been counterproductive: I am being unnecessarily paranoid in not doing "enough" exercise in a day. I need to trust the program and other people's suggestion more =)

IggyLite said:

^ I recently (few months ago) heard about this football/ mma named Herschell Walker. He does hundreds/ thousands of pushups, pullups, and various abs a day in addition to other training. Obviously I am no beast like him, so I did a small fraction of his volume to see what effect will it do to an ordinary layman. I noticed it increased my endurance a lot and toned my body greatly. But in terms of maximal strength and skill progression, it does almost nothing.

However, my goal right now is to achieve certain skills, not doing as many reps in one set, so I need to change that haha.

In addition to that, the reason why I persistently asked whether I can do other workouts in addition to F7+H1 is that I started off with more endurance than the program assumed (I think it is due to the high volume training I did previously) and I "feel" like doing F7+H1 alone is not enough (I do not "feel" the soreness I usually feel). That's why I felt confident adding a moderate amount of workout in addition fo F7+H1.

I think the keyword here is "feel." I have to stop analyzing by mere feelings alone and actually observe the result. I need to give it some time to let my body adjust doing lower reps exercise. I am starting to believe that this is why it has been counterproductive: I am being unnecessarily paranoid in not doing "enough" exercise in a day. I need to trust the program and other people's suggestion more =)

It isn't a suggestion, it is a longtime national level / champion known for putting together gymnasts that are freakishly strong and durable amongst gymnasts putting together a professional program at a level accessible to you and I

Work capacity is good. Likely you will be able to benefit from some more frequent training. However, intensity/volume up means frequency down. Otherwise you will find yourself spinning your wheels, and who's got time for that? Too far to go to burn out or get injured and lose weeks of progress

Bipocni said:

 

Try to work your pullups in a different manner every workout.  One strength and conditioning coach who I respect a lot would cycle his work so he would do:

 

Monday: Weighted chin ups and pullups using various hand positions

Wednesday: Two arm pullups and chin ups for high reps

Friday: One arm chin up progressions

Sunday: Weighted chin ups and pullups using various hand positions

Tuesday: One arm chin up progressions

Thursday: Two arm pullups and chin ups for high reps

Saturday: One arm chin up progressions

Monday: Repeat.

This seems familiar... Never Gymless by Ross Enamait? 

MMarty said:

This seems familiar... Never Gymless by Ross Enamait? 

Yup.  I loved that book, but it didn't have enough information in it for the beginners, or enough progressions for maximal strength.  It has a strong endurance component to it, which works for fighters but not so much for people looking to get stronger.

And the core strength section is rubbish.

Great stuff tho.  I refer back to it whenever I need fresh ideas for my training.

ehm,, me and my friends climbers find out in 98percent of us was able do one arm pull up if you do 27 perfect  pullups with real dead hangs..  not fast ,just at normal speed..    

This sounds eerily similar to gymnasts who are able to do 3x2-3 non-stop climbs up a 7m rope having no issues with OAC either.

The tendonitis problems that commonly arise from OAC work are usually from people who focus on them prematurely before they have built a sufficient foundation of basic strength.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Coach Sommer said:

This sounds eerily similar to gymnasts who are able to do 3x2-3 non-stop climbs up a 7m rope having no issues with OAC either.

The tendonitis problems that commonly arise from OAC work are usually from people who focus on them prematurely before they have built a sufficient foundation of basic strength.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

....wow. that's around 50-73ft for 3 reps at 7m? talk about serious. 

KeilaniG said:

....wow. that's around 50-73ft for 3 reps at 7m? talk about serious. 

Warmup >.<

Those guys are scary strong.

Jon Douglas said:

Warmup >.<

Those guys are scary strong.

SOAB.

KeilaniG said:

....wow. that's around 50-73ft for 3 reps at 7m? talk about serious.

You are only counting ascents; don't forget to include the descents also.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I don't think any amount of 2 arm pullups prepare you enough to do a one arm pullup. I know quite a few people who can crank them out, and they are mostly fairly muscular people without much fat. I know a lot more people who can't do them, and of those, some who can do a half. The gymnasts who can do a half can usually do the bottom half, and the rock-climbers who can do a half can usually do the top half.

Personally, I can do the top half, but not the bottom half, and my left shoulder is weaker than my right. I'm working toward this using a 4kg counterweight over a pulley.

I'm REALLY looking forward to the RC progressions in F3 & 4, and will positively not mess around with OAC progressions before I have mastered Foundation, since OAC training have given me tendonitis issues in the past.

That being said, I imagine that a good approach to begin OAC training would be static one arm hangs, starting from the bottom at a deadhang, working op to say 5x30 secs, then closing the elbows by 5 degrees, working back up to 5x30 and so forth. I suppose that such a progression would contribute to preparing the tendons before actually adding a movement component to the OAC. And I guess that the static hang time would need to be reduced once the elbow joint was at a 90 degree angle - Don't know of people who'd be able to hold a 90 degree bent elbow isometric OAC position for 30 seconds. Well, maybe there are.

Ravn said:

... I imagine that a good approach to begin OAC training would be static one arm hangs, starting from the bottom at a deadhang, working op to say 5x30 secs, then closing the elbows by 5 degrees, working back up to 5x30 and so forth. I suppose that such a progression would contribute to preparing the tendons before actually adding a movement component to the OAC. And I guess that the static hang time would need to be reduced once the elbow joint was at a 90 degree angle - Don't know of people who'd be able to hold a 90 degree bent elbow isometric OAC position for 30 seconds. Well, maybe there are.

Excellent point regarding building the one arm hang duration first.

There was a member of seal team six a number of years ago who mentioned that a substantial part of his training at that time was spent navigating a monkey bar like obstacle course set up high in the trees. Failure meant falling to the ground (which he did more than a few times), so he was highly motivated to put out best effort. He noted that after several months of this training, he had a OAC despite not having trained for it specifically.

Through some acquaintances of mine I attempted to obtain a schematic of the tree high obstacle course, but unfortunately it was classified.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

We have these monkey bar things at the georfia tech gym that I would use on days when I couldn't make it to the gymnastics gym to climb rope. They were a lot if fun and I found it to be a good substitute. Noticed I got more elbow work an less lat fatigue than rope.

I would go across pulling to 90 degrees on one arm before moving to the next. Counted each movement across as a set. Probably 10 pull-ups total.