How is it that some people get no hypertrophy at all?

Yaad Mohammad said:

My goal isn't to bulk up, I just wondered if it would ever happen. I mean at some point I just have to increase in muscle mass. Right now, I'm slowly moving on to endurance. First I want a full planche on rings, and then I will try to do ring routines with planches and iron crosses in it. Of course, this is exactly what I've always been doing, increase in level, but these 2 years I've only gained 3 kg muscle. Sounds so... weird and absurd, from not being able to do good push-ups, to a full planche, gaining only 3 kg muscle...

Some people would say lucky, for competitors

Yaad Mohammad said:

My goal isn't to bulk up, I just wondered if it would ever happen. I mean at some point I just have to increase in muscle mass. Right now, I'm slowly moving on to endurance. First I want a full planche on rings, and then I will try to do ring routines with planches and iron crosses in it. Of course, this is exactly what I've always been doing, increase in level, but these 2 years I've only gained 3 kg muscle. Sounds so... weird and absurd, from not being able to do good push-ups, to a full planche, gaining only 3 kg muscle...

Chances are, if you put on more muscle, you would get stronger faster.  But then again straight arm strength is largely based on tendon strength, which has little to do with muscle mass.

Jon Douglas said:

Some people would say lucky, for competitors

I'd love to compete

Bipocni said:

Chances are, if you put on more muscle, you would get stronger faster.  But then again straight arm strength is largely based on tendon strength, which has little to do with muscle mass.

Interesting, I don't do a lot of BAS work, my BAS work isn't that impressive yet, unless pulling work also counts as BAS work.

Yaad Mohammad said:

I'd love to compete

Interesting, I don't do a lot of BAS work, my BAS work isn't that impressive yet, unless pulling work also counts as BAS work.

it is you just have to look at two sides of the coin, in this case, it's your arm BAS-pressing and pulling

if you're already doing the pulling, work in the pressing

KeilaniG said:

it is you just have to look at two sides of the coin, in this case, it's your arm BAS-pressing and pulling

if you're already doing the pulling, work in the pressing

Pulling I'm doing fine at, however, pressing I'm not that very well developed. I can do one deep HSPU, but that's probably the most impressive thing, can't even do a advanced tuck planche push-ups with good form

Yaad Mohammad said:

Pulling I'm doing fine at, however, pressing I'm not that very well developed. I can do one deep HSPU, but that's probably the most impressive thing, can't even do a advanced tuck planche push-ups with good form

on the F series progressions for hbp and spl?

KeilaniG said:

where are you

on the F series progressions for hbp and spl?

I don't do F series, but I can perform both moves

Yaad Mohammad said:

I don't do F series, but I can perform both moves

mhm and pulling? how's the rope climb and front lever? I'm guessing this is the other side of the BAS puzzle

KeilaniG said:

mhm and pulling? how's the rope climb and front lever? I'm guessing this is the other side of the BAS puzzle

I can go up and down a rope twice in a l-sit with no trouble. Gonna try front lever soon

My guess is that hard gainers are just as rare as easy gainers.  Most of the time it is diet, not enough protein but mostly carbs and fat.  If you are not gaining at 3000 cal then u may need 4k, and then 5k.  Eating clean will be slower but will give better results, related to insulin response I think but I am not big on the science.  

Aside from that I have experienced something that I don't think has been mentioned.  Your body for some reason ( no idea about the science behind this but it makes sense) will not add muscle mass if there is a gap in size and development between you upper and lower body.  

So if your thighs are relatively small, and your upper body is relatively very developed, it will not grow until you catch them up. Obviously, this will have a detrimental effect on your ability to preform some gymnastic skills.  

Arnan Bashir said:

My guess is that hard gainers are just as rare as easy gainers.  Most of the time it is diet, not enough protein but mostly carbs and fat.  If you are not gaining at 3000 cal then u may need 4k, and then 5k.  Eating clean will be slower but will give better results, related to insulin response I think but I am not big on the science.  

 

Aside from that I have experienced something that I don't think has been mentioned.  Your body for some reason ( no idea about the science behind this but it makes sense) will not add muscle mass if there is a gap in size and development between you upper and lower body.  

 

So if your thighs are relatively small, and your upper body is relatively very developed, it will not grow until you catch them up. Obviously, this will have a detrimental effect on your ability to preform some gymnastic skills.  

This just isn't true, their are disabled body builders out there who cant move their legs and as such they are tiny but still have much more developed upper bodys than most would be able to attain.

Elliot said:

This just isn't true, their are disabled body builders out there who cant move their legs and as such they are tiny but still have much more developed upper bodys than most would be able to attain.

Bro, you missed the point.

Larger legs -> more resistance with upper-body BODYWEIGHT movements -> more potential for hypertrophy

Bodybuilding doesn't rely on bodyweight, henche huge upper bodies and small or no legs.

Elliot,  

You make a good point. But, I didn't say you cant get far in the upper body with tiny legs, we have all seen that in the gym.  Also consider that juice will change everything.  Wheelchair bodybuilders have good size in the upper bodies but they are no where near current records.  

I built my arms up to 17.5 inches before doing any serious leg work (no drugs and 16 bf), and they were stuck there for a while.   Heavy squatting for 2 years added 20 lbs of muscle, 3 inches on my thighs and another inch and a half to my arms.   Trust me if those bodybuilders could do leg work they would be much larger everywhere.

In gymnastics, as fafaedras mentioned, the effect would be even more pronounced bc of the added dimension of leverage in gymnastic training.  Adding 5 lbs to your thighs might add 20 or more lbs (conservatively) of resistance to your shoulders in a full planche bc that lever is pretty close to the fulcrum on one end(shoulder joint) and you have only your head and neck as counterbalance.  

In most cases as Naterman said, it is diet, but bringing up lagging body parts will have an effect on overall musculature and the reasons are varied and complex, symmetry, bio-mechanics, leverage etc.  A more scientifically inclined member would be able to elaborate on the science, I just tested the science in pursuit of size, some things worked others didn't.  

I think the most important part of all is missed here. Your body is designed to adapt. As a gymnast having big muscles like a bodybuilder isnt functional at all. Its all about the strength/weight ratio. More strength at a lower bodyweight is more favorable. That having said genes, diet and type of workout will play an important role as well.

I know some will disagree "look at Yuri van Gelder hes big and a gymnast". Yes he is. Its his 24/7 job everything is build around it not like most of us who have to make time to get to a gym etc. He has a great frame for a gymnast from the get go and ive been around long enough to understand that a body like his isnt build on grass fed beef only.

Jeffrey Wijnans said:

(...) a body like his isnt build on grass fed beef only.

Did you mean he is also eating grain fed beef, lamb, pork, fish, veggies, fruits, potatoes, all these sorts of things?

Jeffrey Wijnans said:

a body like his isnt build on grass fed beef only.

Well, that ridiculously high strength and work capacity probably helps.

Joshua Naterman said:

They don't remain 4-5 years old, dude. Come on. Look at the age of the competitors. They are all past puberty, more or less finished growing in height. That leaves more net energy for muscle growth.

 

Additionally, they continue working higher levels of strength, and they are working out with a fairly high volume of activity 5-6 days per week. Not only does this allow them to maintain a very low body fat %, it also allows them to hang on to their muscle. They are using it every day, but never to failure.

 

Finally, they aren't giants! Even Brandon Wynn is only 5'7, 163 lbs. He's not exactly pushing the limits of the human frame, even though it looks like it. At this size, and 5% body fat, he'd only have a FFMI of 24.75, far far away from natural limits of around 26. If he was at his limit, he'd weigh 171-172 lbs at the same 5% fat. That would be a massive difference, both functionally and visibly, and based on what he's already doing he doesn't need the extra muscle so his body probably won't build it.

 

Brandon easily has the highest FFMI of any gymnast I am aware of, even Chen Yibing was only around 23 to 23.5. As you can see, more muscle doesn't guarantee you'll be a better gymnast.

What about Demtry Karabenko?  He looks/looked pretty jacked.  Huge upper body and huge arms

FredInChina said:

Did you mean he is also eating grain fed beef, lamb, pork, fish, veggies, fruits, potatoes, all these sorts of things?

Haha yep along with some "supplements"

Jeffrey Wijnans said:

Haha yep along with some "supplements"

You mean like protein, creatine, branched chain amino acids, omega 3, ect...

Bipocni said:

You mean like protein, creatine, branched chain amino acids, omega 3, ect...

Nope I mean PED's.

Jeffrey Wijnans said:

Nope I mean PED's.

Really?  Gymnastics is like, the one sport where steroids are a plain bad idea.  I'm sure developing extra mass really helps when you have to lift that same mass....

Ever seen a bodybuilder attempt an iron cross?  Maybe they can do it for a second or two before their elbows explode.  Steroids build muscle at a rate that outclips tendon strength, which would just be stupid when you're training straight arm strength.  There's a reason GST builds muscle a lot slower than it builds strength.

Why is it that every time someone builds an incredible physique, someone has to come along and say it was steroids?  Look up the old timers from the golden age of bodybuilding.  They had muscles that vastly eclipse anything Yuri Van Gelder has, and this was before steroids were even invented!

Bipocni said:

Really?  Gymnastics is like, the one sport where steroids are a plain bad idea.  I'm sure developing extra mass really helps when you have to lift that same mass....

 

Ever seen a bodybuilder attempt an iron cross?  Maybe they can do it for a second or two before their elbows explode.  Steroids build muscle at a rate that outclips tendon strength, which would just be stupid when you're training straight arm strength.  There's a reason GST builds muscle a lot slower than it builds strength.

 

Why is it that every time someone builds an incredible physique, someone has to come along and say it was steroids?  Look up the old timers from the golden age of bodybuilding.  They had muscles that vastly eclipse anything Yuri Van Gelder has, and this was before steroids were even invented!

You clearly are as green as grass on this topic! This is the reason why I didnt want to say the actual word. PED's come in different shapes/forms which promote different effects. Not all steroids put on incredible mass some are very potent to enhance strength while maintaining your bodyweight. Aside from that when used wisely it can be used to increase your overall training volume/intensity because your recovering faster. More time on task means more room for growth which means a better/faster learning curve etc etc. I understand you want to hold on to the idea of a "clean" sport. But let me tell you one thing ive been around for a while coached and treat top players in several different sport fields with just one conclusion most of them use some sort of PED.

Dont get me wrong I think you can build a solid body withoud PED's. I think you can get very good withoud PED's but if you want to be on a world stage at most sports there will PED's involved.

Ow and dont let me get started on the golden age of bodybuilding. The time were Dr. ziegler found out about a new substance which was free of charge for most top athletes and which you could get from your local pharmacy withoud presciption. A substance called dianabol entered the world and was banned by the FDA a few years later. Arnold ate those like candy!

Van Gelder was stripped of a title for that, wasn't he? No one is saying it doesn't happen, but as Coach wrote, it isn't going to help you land a triple back somersault. The skill aspect of gymnastics is hardly insignificant.

It's hard to tell these days though; at the very top levels everything makes a difference. Diuretics are often used as masking agents so testing positive for them results in a punishment or ban even when they don't actually indicate anything more significant than cutting water to be a little lighter on the rings. I can't remember offhand the details of that incident.

Anyway, he's an impressively-built guy but neither the most striking (IMO) nor the only one. For us non world-class GST students, those things certainly aren't necessary to get the physique and much of the performance, if not quite in the same league

Jon Douglas said:

Van Gelder was stripped of a title for that, wasn't he? No one is saying it doesn't happen, but as Coach wrote, it isn't going to help you land a triple back somersault. The skill aspect of gymnastics is hardly insignificant.

 

It's hard to tell these days though; at the very top levels everything makes a difference. Diuretics are often used as masking agents so testing positive for them results in a punishment or ban even when they don't actually indicate anything more significant than cutting water to be a little lighter on the rings. I can't remember offhand the details of that incident.

Anyway, he's an impressively-built guy but neither the most striking (IMO) nor the only one. For us non world-class GST students, those things certainly aren't necessary to get the physique and much of the performance, if not quite in the same league

It wont help you land but as a ring specialist an exercise were strength plays a big role its an even more obvious choice to do so.

Gaining size is about DIET.

If you're not eating more calories than you burn, you wont gain weight and thus wont gain muscle. Start making an effort to eat more. In the process of getting heavier, youll get stronger due to moving a greater workload (your body)