Perfect Form at Beginning of Cycle

I have just started F1 and am on PE1 on all elements but on different weeks.

On MN/PE1 I started at week 5 and am currently on week 6 so I am doing 4 x 9 reps. My ROM isn't great I am struggling to get my knees up to my chest but the limited ROM is within my limit. It is more of a mobility and flexibility issue rather than a strength issue.

My question is should I aim for perfect ROM at low numbers starting and staying at the first mini cycle (week 1-3)  or build up volume and stay at the last mini cycle (week 9-11) until my ROM improves ?

Probably related is that the iM - SL Windmill was  impossible the first time I tried it, I thought I was going to break, I could hardly do it, that has improved somewhat since but is still pretty ropey - I dread it !!

i would suggest moving on until you've reached the last mini cycle unless your execution is really bad.

repeat the last mini cycle for fine grinding.

Yeah, sounds good, the volume can only help improve the form.

Also because I guess that one can improve substantially by the time you reach week 11. I had basically the same question in mind, is there anything "official"?

tfeal said:

Yeah, sounds good, the volume can only help improve the form.

This is often not the case. The more you practice a movement with bad form, the more bad form becomes a habit.

In the OP's position, where one is limited by mobility, building volume is OK so long as you make sure to push yourself to the edge of your mobility on every rep. 

However, if your form is poor due to a lack of strength or skill, it's best to stay at low-volume until you're able to perform the movement properly, and then begin adding volume.

Insufficient strength to properly perform a movement is also an indicator that you probably haven't mastered one or more of the previous movements or im's, so if you end up in such a situation I would recommend recording yourself on previous movements and checking your form. 

Right, but I think it depends on the reason why you fail in mastering proper form. If it is a strength deficit, then there is no way to perform it at high volume. If it is a mobility issue, then week5 should be a good way to practice with the mobility enough (extra work can be added) while keeping a decent working volume on the exercise. Am I wrong?

federicoC said:

Right, but I think it depends on the reason why you fail in mastering proper form. If it is a strength deficit, then there is no way to perform it at high volume. If it is a mobility issue, then week5 should be a good way to practice with the mobility enough (extra work can be added) while keeping a decent working volume on the exercise. Am I wrong?

Did you even read my post? I specifically addressed those points. 

Joshua Slocum said:

This is often not the case. The more you practice a movement with bad form, the more bad form becomes a habit.

 

In the OP's position, where one is limited by mobility, building volume is OK so long as you make sure to push yourself to the edge of your mobility on every rep. 

 

However, if your form is poor due to a lack of strength or skill, it's best to stay at low-volume until you're able to perform the movement properly, and then begin adding volume.

 

Insufficient strength to properly perform a movement is also an indicator that you probably haven't mastered one or more of the previous movements or im's, so if you end up in such a situation I would recommend recording yourself on previous movements and checking your form. 

That's why i wrote you should only move on to the next mini cycle if your form isn't too bad.

I am sorry, I actually misunderstood your previous post. I read it again, now I get it

P5yx said:

That's why i wrote you should only move on to the next mini cycle if your form isn't too bad.

This is not correct. You should only move on if your form is good. If you have a mobility issue (e.g. you can't compress all the way in MN/PE1), you still need to perform the movement with good form. Practice makes permanent, so make sure you're doing it right before you start adding volume. 

Joshua Slocum said:

This is not correct. You should only move on if your form is good. If you have a mobility issue (e.g. you can't compress all the way in MN/PE1), you still need to perform the movement with good form. Practice makes permanent, so make sure you're doing it right before you start adding volume. 

i think we mean the same thing but i did express myself wrong. you could also say your form is bad if you can't compress all the way. nevertheless you're right of course and i did it that way anyways. just wrote it a bit confusing. sry for that.

P5yx said:

i think we mean the same thing but i did express myself wrong. you could also say your form is bad if you can't compress all the way. nevertheless you're right of course and i did it that way anyways. just wrote it a bit confusing. sry for that.

No worries

It looks like I will have to go back to the beginning. On reflection maybe there are some strength issues as well. 

As a follow on question, if I go back to week 1 where the aim is 3 x 3 on MN/PE1 and one rep is a bit sloppy and I know I could do better should I repeat it until I am happy ? So in effect I might try 2 or 3 attempts before I count it.

tfeal said:

It looks like I will have to go back to the beginning. On reflection maybe there are some strength issues as well. 

 

As a follow on question, if I go back to week 1 where the aim is 3 x 3 on MN/PE1 and one rep is a bit sloppy and I know I could do better should I repeat it until I am happy ? So in effect I might try 2 or 3 attempts before I count it.

Precisely: only count reps with good form. 

do you also apply this principle when you are further into the progression (e.g. week 9)? 

Yup, if your form was not perfect, then repeat the rep until it is perfect.

Vincearoo said:

Yup, if your form was not perfect, then repeat the rep until it is perfect.

Unless you're too tired to complete any more reps with good form. Then you should treat the set as a failure and move to the iM (no grinding reps!). 

What you may find is at though you may lack the strength or mobility to do the Tuck Up, your coordination may not be up to scratch either. Practice the exercise as a whole body movement rather than an abdominal exercise.

I try to give myself the best of both worlds by doing good form for as many reps as I can. Then, I take a 5-second breather as required, then finish the set with the same good form. From there, the process of mastering the movement is to gradually eliminate these mini-breaks from all the sets.

I find this especially valuable for the tuck-up, as it's easy to cheat this move when fatigued to just 'get through the reps'.

Personally, I've found that staying at perfect form volume while making cautious excursions into higher volumes is the most effective approach.  Usually within an extra week or two I find I'm able to move ahead with good form.  On some occasions, though, I'll get stuck at a particular volume and not make much progress at all in terms of volume or ease of performance with perfect form.  In this instances, I will sometimes push the volume just past the point of form deterioration to see if this will help stimulate some improvement.  It's more of an art than a science, based on my experience to date (which, admittedly, is modest).