Dealing with plateauing

Hey all,

I got to weeks 10 and 11 of HBP/PE2 and didn't have it. My first & second sets were solid 15-reps, good form, good tempo, but I steadily degraded from there. On third I had to take short breaks, and on the fourth and fifth I either had to take long breaks, pike and take a long break, or fall out of push-up position and get on my knees completely, and I couldn't go immediately from HBP/PE2 to HBP/PE2>iM and back. So I did a week 12 deload, re-started at week 9. Now I'm at week 11 again, and again, I "don't have it." Same "needing to rest" issue at the later sets. I do not struggle with the integrated mobility, using 10lbs.

I assume I'm not alone with "plateauing" like this. My questions are...

How do you guys push past your plateaus? Is it as simple as "repeat the week9 through week 12 microcycle until you achieve mastery on week 11," or are there more efficient techniques, like trying sets of 20, 30, etc? Is it an "it depends" kind of answer?

Is this type of plateau a result of working too much/too little (I'm doing F7 on Mondays & Thursdays, and H1 on Tuesdays and Fridays; I'm 34.)? How can I tell?

Am I just being impatient? How can I tell?

I'd very much like to hear what other people have gone through. Right now I'm planning to repeat weeks 9-12 of HBP/PE2 a third time, and RC/PE3 for the second time, and I can't help but think "these elements are too early in the progression to plateau at." I like working hard to achieve goals, but feeling like I'm working hard and being stagnant is really killer, and feeling like I'm stagnating on "easy" things is even worse :-/. 

Hey buddy... I'm the same age as you and I've experienced this as well... I also did the F7 thing and found it too much for me. I find the 4 day F1 schedule works best and I do the H1 work on the SL/MN/SLS day.

Not hitting the reps/time can be frustrating initially but can be a good thing as well. I'm working all PE1's still but I found that as my sPL reps increased I was struggling to hit the reps on the HBP work which also has a knock effect with the RC work. I'd also plateaued on sPL/PE1 after a few cycles of weeks 5-8. I recently regressed to doing this PE from knees which allows me to get more volume in at less intensity (beneficial for me I think) and I still find it challenging because of my weak links and shocking mobility. Last week I did 4*15, this week it's 5*15 and next week I'll go for 6*15 before deload. I'll return to doing these as demonstrated in F1 after the next deload. HBP reps go up steadily now but they're still hard. 

You can repeat the microcycle which will allow you some more time in underload which your body would likely thank you for (pretty sure this is what's suggested in F1). You could also look at increasing less reps each week... perhaps you could just add 2 reps a week like the 10r mastery template? I think Joshua N said he was adding a rep per workout at one point for one of the elements?

Don't be afraid to go backwards to go forwards. It's not easy but if you can get your mindset in the right place it works well. As for statics such as hollow holds I found them really hard to make gains on initially. I think Charm said somewhere that these are a lot to do with attitude. They can be a killer but I'm finding the 'f**k you, you're not gonna beat me' approach is working for me. 

I can identify with the impatience thing too... I used to be like that until I decided that I wanted to really fix my weak and immobile body. Can't believe I was attempting Ring Dips last year... what a joke! You'll get to Pseudo Planche Pushups in time but make sure you milk PE2 for all it's worth

Richard Hamilton said:

I think Charm said somewhere that these are a lot to do with attitude. They can be a killer but I'm finding the 'f**k you, you're not gonna beat me' approach is working for me.

I think in the particular example I was probably talking about RCPE6, but the advice stands for any of the statics

You do what's in front of you for the day. If you don't make it, fine, but it's not because you got lazy, it's because you genuinely need time to adapt, not just learn the movement. If you can say that honestly, then keep patience and you'll bust through on your body's timetable, not yours.

Richard Hamilton said:

... I also did the F7 thing and found it too much for me. I find the 4 day F1 schedule works best and I do the H1 work on the SL/MN/SLS day.

 

How did you come to realize that F7 2x per week was "too much?" Plateauing week after week? Feeling crappy/exhausted, and like you can't keep going back to the gym week after week?

Also, thanks for pointing this workout plan out. The 4-day F1 schedule with H1 work on the SL/MN/SLS day is not in the HS course itself ... and I hadn't seen it until you talked about it and I started looking (it's in the  "Plan Your Workout" feature, which I hadn't explored). 

I was actually doing F7 3x week. I really wanted to progress week after week with the numbers and I soon realised I needed to change tack. I was also going for it with the stretching which left me feeling pretty wiped out. I

felt tired in general and like I couldn't be bothered at times. I was also walking the dog 4 or 5 miles a day. I was still in the mindset that more was better but manage to control my ego now!

Doing the H1 work on SL/MN/SLS days works quite well for me and I find doing HS/PE1>iM helps with deck squats. I can't say I've ever used the workout scheduler, I just write everything in a diary to keep track...

Cool, thanks for sharing.

Anyone else want to weigh in? I'm interested in hearing what other folks have to say about pushing past plateaus, identifying overtraining, dialing in their body's recovery abilities, etc. 

If the jump from one microcycle to the next is too big, you can try doing something in between.

There is plateau, and there is hidden progress... the distinction is capital: maybe you are still improving form, body shape, ROM, tempo and rest times; maybe this happens consciously, or maybe it is just very subtle and hardly visible?

If that is the case, it is not a plateau, there is progress, and you are not wasting any time keeping at it.

Try and get a bit more volume each week.

wamarler said:

How did you come to realize that F7 2x per week was "too much?" Plateauing week after week? Feeling crappy/exhausted, and like you can't keep going back to the gym week after week?

I know this question wasn't aimed at me but I went through this.  I was doing F7 2x a week and I knew it was too much simply because I wasn't actually looking forward to my workouts!  Admittedly I was also adding a ton of other stuff that I've since removed from my program, but if you're not getting fired up to get started, you're doing too much work.  I find the 4 day split to be perfect right now.

To answer your original question, I'm having trouble jumping from 6 reps to 9 reps in RC/PE1 (I know, my brachoradialis is just super weak) so I'm going to add extra weeks, 7 reps, 8 reps and so on.  It's all about finding what works for you.  If you can hit the rep range, and just need a few seconds pause maybe you just need to repeat that week a few times and work on shortening the rest period?

Richard Hamilton said:

I think Charm said somewhere that these are a lot to do with attitude. They can be a killer but I'm finding the 'f**k you, you're not gonna beat me' approach is working for me. 

 

Thanks buddy.  This is gonna get me through my arch body holds today.

I've been increasing reps for pushups by 1 each workout, which has helped a lot.

I personally add a small amount of reps or seconds per set every week.

Why - because I found out that i can't keep up with the original rep/sec changes. Your focus should be on the mastery reps/sec per set, so you dont have to worry too much about how you get there because everyone is different.

This is really interesting, thanks for all the suggestions and attention. I hadn't even thought of breaking from Coach's direction and adjusting the rate at which i added reps. Of course, now that you talk about it, I ask "well why not?" And thanks for the different perspective Fred, maybe I was too fixated on failing on the # of sets to see improvements in technique/tempo. 

I don't think I'm overtraining. I'm typically pretty pumped for the day's work (though I've been more pumped for HS days I have to admit...), and haven't felt like doing F7 has been too much. That is to say... I didn't think so until today. For some reason today I hit a wall on my last of the F7 elements (the RC). Maybe it was because I said "f*#k you, I own you" to the ABH sets, and the energy required to nail them (which I did) sapped me for the later sets. Hard to say. But I left before even trying the last 3 sets, something I've never done before.

I think I know where I'm going next: going from F7 on M/Thu and HS Tue/Fri to the 4-day strength cycle with HS work on Tues & Fri. If that doesn't work with Coach's load schedule for the next macrocycle (mesocycle?), then I'll load by 1 rep per week after that. 

I'm still interested in hearing how other people break through their walls -- there's no doubt in my mind it'll happen again to me, and I'm sure it'll manifest in a different way next time around. 

I think that pushups for me are not easy. They are getting better, but as my form gets better and core tighter, they then seem harder to do. So I also feel somewhat 'plateued' in reps, but in actual performance am constantly working on what feels like better form.

I think if I just slammed through things to 'get the reps', the form from this point on will be bad and the whole point of building my foundation, will be effectively abandoned. I hope then the extra work here is then mulitplied out in its usefulness and benefits in the future.

As my plank progresses, I try harder to keep the position 'just so'... this then seems to translate into making my pushups harder.

In my initial testing, I could 'do' 5x15r... those reps look and feel totally different to my current 3x12r with better form. I know a bit better now when the form breaks down and believe it is of limited value to continue on.

We used to do pushups at work and I did 50 in a row then. They were not really pushups just a lot of cheating!

edna said:

(...) As my plank progresses, I try harder to keep the position 'just so'... this then seems to translate into making my pushups harder. (...)

hehehe... been there, have the tee shirt!

FredInChina said:

hehehe... been there, have the tee shirt!

Look forward to this with HBR

Charm said:

Look forward to this with HBR

This is why I love keeping hollow body holds as a warmup to hollow rocks.  It reinforces good positioning, which can go all over the place rocking back and forth.  Of course, each working they get harder as a result....

HBP PE2 is nasty. Did the mastery today with what I thought was acceptable quality reps and tempo with little fuss. I did a final cycle of 4x15, 5x15 (last reps of final set kinda sucked), 5x15 (good reps). I had tried the approach of retrying the last microcycle twice before already but I found that only two attempts at mastery wasn't enough as I was always having bad quality reps or irregular tempo in the last set and 4x12 wasn't really doing much for me.

Looking forward to HBP PE3 .

People looks forward to hbp pe3? I'm dreading it, I'm going to be stuck there for a very long time. Things should fly after that, but still.

Vincearoo said:

People looks forward to hbp pe3? I'm dreading it, I'm going to be stuck there for a very long time. Things should fly after that, but still.

I'm definitely looking forward to it! To me, the feeling of progressing through harder and harder elements is very satisfying. 

I know what you mean about dreading it though -- I've gone through that with ABH's (still do to an extent). I take the feeling of dread as an indicator that I'm pushing too hard, and to dial back my intensity some. Of course work needs to be hard to stimulate adaptations, but it's counter-productive if it's so hard it keeps us out of the gym.