shoulder position in hollow body holds

hey guys,

what should be the correct shoulder positon in FL/PE1 to FL/PE6?

are we supposed to protract, protract and depress, retract or just leave them in a neutral position?

so long

p5yx

Just mimic the demonstration video as best you can. Maybe try some FL PE2's, just to get the feeling of trying to keep your back round if you're still unsure.

If you do so you'll realize that it would be physically impossible to perform anything above PE1 (and even that would probably be impossible) with retracted scapulae.

Don't over think the movements.

P5yx said:

what should be the correct shoulder positon in FL/PE1 to FL/PE6?

are we supposed to protract, protract and depress, retract or just leave them in a neutral position?

Is it just me or do we over think everything around here....

Bipocni said:

 

Is it just me or do we over think everything around here....

The more I read this forum, the more paranoid I become. I often have to take a deep breath and remind myself that I'm only on PE1. It's not rocket science! I very much like Coach's style of teaching. Laconic yet good, solid instruction. It takes visting this forum to really screw with my head and make me question everything, like hinge rows. That multipage thread on if the butt should touch the ground in hinge rows will forever serve as a reminder of our paralysis by analysis mentality. Nike said it best.

To begin with I love the program and am very thankful to all those involved. However when the emphasis is on using correct form while the instructions are minimal there will always be doubt about things that are not specified. I have seen many times on here people who know stuff say things like 'focus on correct form'.

This emphasis triggers the 'over thinking' as most of us have no experience in this stuff (well me anyway). With a coach or someone experienced these things will be instant corrections. However we here will be doing this for 12 weeks potentially wrong so just a bit of clarification is good.

John P said:

To begin with I love the program and am very thankful to all those involved. However when the emphasis is on using correct form while the instructions are minimal there will always be doubt about things that are not specified. I have seen many times on here people who know stuff say things like 'focus on correct form'.

This emphasis triggers the 'over thinking' as most of us have no experience in this stuff (well me anyway). With a coach or someone experienced these things will be instant corrections. However we here will be doing this for 12 weeks potentially wrong so just a bit of clarification is good.

I second John P.

I often see the more experienced members here on GB forums bashing the newbie questions. Well the most of us have never seen a single movement like that, and to my best knowledge these forums are here for exactly these stupid newbie questions. I think it reflects little to no empathy when you have seen that movement already at a seminar and you have been corrected also, but you expect the new guy to know that already from day 0.

The one thing I agree on is the the fact that a few movements had been seriously overanalyzed, but that does not change the fact that newcomers need some help and feedback with their movements.

As I've not been to a seminar and am neither employee nor gymnast I reserve the right to rage to my heart's content, however these nice moderator people also reserve the right to correct me when I've gone off on some tangent. I tend to listen to them and where the details escape me, put in reps until I work it out for myself.

That argument aside, some (hopefully) helpful experience!

P5YX-- originally I did my hollow holds by reaching directly up (towards the roof) in front of my shoulders. Scapula naturally follow them (protract). This is pretty much a plank position with hands together, like shown in the video.

Now I tend to do them reaching over my head, continuing the arch of my body. This is close to a handstand position, with an exaggerated hollow-- like SE6>IM in HS1. Protract and elevate.

From other discussions and some references from Daniel Burnham, I am inclined to think that either of these is fine, and is certainly less important than the body position. The notes also say that hands can be by waist; I find I get a more comfortable hold with better tension by protracting here too, thinking more like an upside down maltese than a front lever (again somewhat exaggerated).

Indications are there is some leeway, so see what feels comfortable for you.

Norbert Marko said:

I second John P.

I often see the more experienced members here on GB forums bashing the newbie questions.

 

 

I don't think this is correct. Even if you've defended my initial post here i don't think there is much newbie bashing going on here. In fact that community is one of the most supportive on the whole net! Even if a question got asked a million times before, most of the time there is no stupid "go use the search function" coming from a member.

I really love that community!

Norbert Marko said:

I second John P.

I often see the more experienced members here on GB forums bashing the newbie questions. Well the most of us have never seen a single movement like that, and to my best knowledge these forums are here for exactly these stupid newbie questions. I think it reflects little to no empathy when you have seen that movement already at a seminar and you have been corrected also, but you expect the new guy to know that already from day 0.

The one thing I agree on is the the fact that a few movements had been seriously overanalyzed, but that does not change the fact that newcomers need some help and feedback with their movements.

I don't think anyone here is bashing the newbie's question, but moreso simply answering it by suggesting that they trust in the demonstration video, the included form cues, and maybe trying a little of the next progression to get the "feel" of what a hollow body position is.

As the old saying goes "a picture is worth a thousand words" (which would make a 20 second long video worth, what 20 thousand words?). The reason coach decided to include video demonstrations in the course is so he wouldn't have to write hundreds of thousands of words explaining every single little nuance of each movement. Instead he wrote down what he felt were the most important form cues to performance of each element and trusted that we the students of the course would figure out the rest by watching the videos and attempting to copy them with our bodies. He also created the forum so that we could post up questions about problems we encounter along the way.

Btw, I'm not a gymnast, or affiliated with Coach, so this is just my opinion, nothing more.

Keegan Y said:

I don't think anyone here is bashing the newbie's question, but moreso simply answering it by suggesting that they trust in the demonstration video, the included form cues, and maybe trying a little of the next progression to get the "feel" of what a hollow body position is.

As the old saying goes "a picture is worth a thousand words" (which would make a 20 second long video worth, what 20 thousand words?). The reason coach decided to include video demonstrations in the course is so he wouldn't have to write hundreds of thousands of words explaining every single little nuance of each movement ... Instead he wrote down what he felt were the most important form cues to performance of each element and trusted that we the students of the course would figure out the rest by watching the videos and attempting to copy them with our bodies ... He also created the forum so that we could post up questions about problems we encounter along the way ...

 

Keegan Y is spot on.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I didn't mean to start anything here, or "bash the newbies question" as it were, it's just that when I was re-reading the scapula positions sticky recently I thought about how we over-analyze everything, and the most ridiculous extreme I could think of was worrying about scapula position in hollow holds.  It made me chuckle at the time, and then someone actually went and asked the question....

Bipocni said:

I didn't mean to start anything here, or "bash the newbies question" as it were, it's just that when I was re-reading the scapula positions sticky recently I thought about how we over-analyze everything, and the most ridiculous extreme I could think of was worrying about scapula position in hollow holds.  It made me chuckle at the time, and then someone actually went and asked the question....

Yeah, I was a little bit harsh too, I apologize, and the word wasn't the most appropirate, it is just english isn't my first language and sometimes I just put in words that do not quite fit in.

hm as mutch as i have to admit that many (me included) overanalyze movements quite a bit, i don't think scapula positioning

is one of these overanalyzed things.

in my opinion the correct scapula position is often the absolut key for getting a perfect element.

P5yx said:

hm as mutch as i have to admit that many (me included) overanalyze movements quite a bit, i don't think scapula positioning

is one of these overanalyzed things.

in my opinion the correct scapula position is often the absolut key for getting a perfect element.

True for any movement that exerts force through the shoulder. Body shaping is the focus of the hollow body. Now with this said neutral to slightly protracted is a good focus for the hollow hold since most elements that use this shape later on exter force through the shoulder this way.

Daniel Burnham said:

True for any movement that exerts force through the shoulder. Body shaping is the focus of the hollow body. Now with this said neutral to slightly protracted is a good focus for the hollow hold since most elements that use this shape later on exter force through the shoulder this way.

Thx Daniel. That's what i thought too. Just wasn't shure about the degree of protraction.

Depressed and slightly protracted seems the way to go.