Milk, Milk and More Milk!

FredInChina said:

Not for milk, at least not in Europe.

Half skim or fat free milk, is just milk with part or all of the fat removed.

.......... Even whole milk has some fat removed to make a standard 3.3% fat milk.

But it is not replaced by anything.

Ahhh, I don't know about the UK, we seem to be 'odd' when it comes to us thinking we're part of Europe. I don't know what's going on with our David Cameron (Edit: I don't follow politics and shiz, this was awhile ago)   . Either way, our yogurts get sugared up badly . 

Jake Lawrance said:

(...) Either way, our yogurts get sugared up badly . 

Yes, this is a market specific taste, nothing much can be done to change that unfortunately.

Joshua Naterman said:

And then there's me... lol

 

I feel my best when I'm getting around half a gallon per day. Of course, it's low temperature vat pasteurized, but I also drink close 16-32 ounces of homemade kefir every day. That stuff can make a HUGE difference in your life over time.

Anything you can directly attribute to the kefir?  I was making some for a time, but I had a real struggle getting it to culture right, so I gave up....

But is it really so super good for you as everyone says?

Jake Lawrance said:

Ahhh, I don't know about the UK, we seem to be 'odd' when it comes to us thinking we're part of Europe. I don't know what's going on with our David Cameron (Edit: I don't follow politics and shiz, this was awhile ago)   . Either way, our yogurts get sugared up badly . 

I've found 'total' yogurt seems to have 2-3 times as much protein as carbs, which I take to mean it's a pretty decent yogurt.

Bipocni said:

Anything you can directly attribute to the kefir?  I was making some for a time, but I had a real struggle getting it to culture right, so I gave up....

 

But is it really so super good for you as everyone says?

Well, my father has had irritable bowel syndrome for like 20 years, but all symptoms are gone for the last 2 years since he started drinking the kefir. His doctors had him stop for a week or two a few times just to see what would happen, and it came back. So, he keeps drinking it. Helped him ditch some meds.

For me, I just feel better. I have no medical issues, and I don't seem to get sick when everyone else does, but I also eat with my public transportation card ( I am not encouraging that habit, just being honest about potential confounds) whihc exposes me to a fairly wide variety of pathogens on a regular basis. I also think that the combination of getting the microflora and fauna along with all the fiber in my veggies actually feeding them each meal, keeps me healthy, strong, and fairly lean for my size. There is evidence that the gut bacteria, when fed properly, actually dramatically decrease inflammatory response to excess food, which means they have important inflammation control functions in general. Yet more reasons to eat your veggies and get your fermented foods on a regular basis, in my opinion. Inflammatory status has effects on insulin sensitivity and lipogenesis.

hey guys,

next week i'm going to start my 4 weeks milk free programm, just want to check out if my acne becomes better and my allergies and maybe some more  

i'm drinking at minimum 1 Litre a day, so could make a difference in my life. 

But my post workout shake has to taste good without the milk, so i'm trying with coconut milk with many calories. Hope it works!

I will report.

Good luck!

Blairbob said:

Actually there is evidence of the consumption of milk in Africa and the Near Middle East ( Canaan and Sumeria ) besides Northern India.

 

There are still various groups in Africa that consume milk without issue which is peculiar since by the numbers, African Americans seem to have a problem with lactose as do Central and South Americans

Interesting that you mention South Americans. In the 28 years I lived in Brazil I never met anybody with milk alergies, maybe in other countries it's more common

William said:

hey guys,

 

next week i'm going to start my 4 weeks milk free programm, just want to check out if my acne becomes better and my allergies and maybe some more

i'm drinking at minimum 1 Litre a day, so could make a difference in my life. 

But my post workout shake has to taste good without the milk, so i'm trying with coconut milk with many calories. Hope it works!

I will report.

Look forward to see the results.

Milk and pasteurized milk are not the same thing, and that is going to cause serious problems with trying to define who is "naturally intolerant."

Joshua Naterman said:

Milk and pasteurized milk are not the same thing, and that is going to cause serious problems with trying to define who is "naturally intolerant."

Yeah, but how hard is it to get raw milk?  In the US at least...

I've been able to find it in US but it isn't easy. When I lived in Minnesota they had it at whole foods. Here in Atlanta they sell it at the big farmers market. It is about double the price but tastes amazing.

I used to drink a gallon a day when I was lifting weights. I now rarely drink the stuff. I really don't see much need for it. My diet is pretty complete without it and i don't feel like spending 6 bucks a gallon.

In Ljubljana, Slovenia, there are milk machines scattered throughout the city with raw milk. It's been going for a couple of years now.

nice pic, nice idea!

Rat studies for human nutrition are pretty useless. Good for pioleting your ideas, but we are far too different. Anyone basing their science of human nutrition on rat studies needs a recap on strength of studies.

Prometheus said:

Rat studies for human nutrition are pretty useless. Good for pioleting your ideas, but we are far too different. Anyone basing their science of human nutrition on rat studies needs a recap on strength of studies.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

Prometheus said:

Rat studies for human nutrition are pretty useless. Good for pioleting your ideas, but we are far too different. Anyone basing their science of human nutrition on rat studies needs a recap on strength of studies.

This is true, but these types of studies have led to plenty of human research. You can feel free to look at all of the gut bacteria research that's piling up if you want human evidence that gut bacteria populations have immense influence over our health.

In fact, this is true for several mammals... all that have been studied in terms of gut bacteria, actually.

Eating lots of different plant organs, from stems to roots to leaves to flowers, ensures that you get a wide variety of "prebiotic" fiber, meaning that it promotes the growth of beneficial gut bacterial populations, and apparently can increase the variety of species that you have in your gut, which appears to be a very good thing.

I don't know whether any particular type of milk will do this, but it's good information to know

Captain Obvious? There are many clinicians and very educated people who don't understand the fundamentals of research.... I have even talked to people attaining their PhDs that argue on topics with weak edvidence against strong evidence using animal models. By calling me Captain Obvious for such a moderate view, you are simply showing your ability to disrespect.

Also, yes they are good for prelim testing and knowledge. However, it is way too easy for mainstream media and even many physicians I know to take animal studies completely out of context (i.e. recent rat studies 'proving' red meat is bad). In all, as most here have already said on this forum, humans are not animals. Nutrition sciences already are often boarderlining pseudoscience.  More then typically, animal models in scientific reserch isn't even decently clinically translatable nutrition science. It wont be good science till you prove something in humans anyway.

Yes, we have known gut bacteria have heavy influence on our health for a very long time. Simple example is treating someone with sepsis with antibiotics, fixing their blood infection, only to see them rebound with a terrible gut infection from opportunistic bacteria.

We can all agree animal research is imperative for scientific progress, it is just that often people do not take caution in interpreting those studies in the correct context frequently enough.

Prometheus said:

Apparently not so obvious...

 

 

Also, yes they are good for prelim testing and knowledge. However, it is way too easy for mainstream media and even many physicians I know to take animal studies completely out of context (i.e. recent rat studies 'proving' red meat is bad). In all, as most here have already said, humans are not animals, so it isn't even decent clinically translatable nutrition science till you prove something in humans.

Yes, we have known gut bacteria have heavy influence on our health for a very long time. Simple example is treating someone with sepsis with antibiotics, fixing their blood infection, only to see them rebound with a terrible gut infection from opportunistic bacteria.

We can all agree animal research is imperative for scientific progress, it is just that often people do not take caution in interpreting those studies in the correct context frequently enough.

Humans are animals. We are just larger, different animals than rats.

What is different, now, regarding gut bacteria research is that there is actual scientific evidence piling up that not only validates the importance of maintaining a healthy variety of gut bacteria poopulations ( at my own typo) but is pointing to specific species appear to have a significant impact. Not everyone has them, and there is research suggesting that this lack is putting them at greater risk of 'chronic' low grade inflammation, which we 'know' is a powerful promoter of a wide variety of chronic diseases.

We are building a new concept of human life, and life in general, bit by bit: The concept that we are not a single being, but the sum of many different lifeforms living together in symbiosis. Yes, many alternative health people have been preaching this, and to a a certain extent this is a great victory for them, but this research represents the beginning of truly integrating this concept into the predominant medical system in the Western world. It remains to be seen what approaches are taken to flesh this out as time passes.

Prometheus said:

Captain Obvious? There are many clinicians and very educated people who don't understand the fundamentals of research.... I have even talked to people attaining their PhDs that argue on topics with weak edvidence against strong evidence using animal models. By calling me Captain Obvious for such a moderate view, you are simply showing your ability to disrespect.

Sorry man, I just thought that you were being needlessly pompous. No one said anything about rat studies being conclusive; I just mentioned them for the sake of interest. In any case, my response wasn't super appropriate either so I apologize.

-MR said:

Sorry man, I just thought that you were being needlessly pompous. No one said anything about rat studies being conclusive; I just mentioned them for the sake of interest. In any case, my response wasn't super appropriate either so I apologize.

No I am sorry that it came off that way. I love forums, but we cannot see body language and hear tonality~. If it wasn't quoted, I would just ammend the statements anyway. Instead, I extend a 'forum handshake.'

Milk is a healthy drink regardless. Maybe detrimental for those who are lactose intolerant. I use Lactofree, milk without the lactose shit, I'm not sure if these things are sold in North America.

I experimented with rice milk before, it tastes sweet. Not much protein in it though compared to cow's milk. Can't remember what my experience is with goat milk. Never tried soya yet.

Sailor Venus said:

Milk is a healthy drink regardless. Maybe detrimental for those who are lactose intolerant. I use Lactofree, milk without the lactose shit, I'm not sure if these things are sold in North America.

Might be a good idea for someone trying to lose weight, but for the most part I can't imagine modified milk could be any better than real milk.  Have you seen that 'pure' stuff on the shelves?  It's not really pure milk, but modified somehow to remove basically all the good bits.

William said:

hey guys,

 

next week i'm going to start my 4 weeks milk free programm, just want to check out if my acne becomes better and my allergies and maybe some more

i'm drinking at minimum 1 Litre a day, so could make a difference in my life. 

But my post workout shake has to taste good without the milk, so i'm trying with coconut milk with many calories. Hope it works!

I will report.

I've just started the opposite. I'm trying to drink a litre a day on top of however much I usually have to see if it triggers my acne, and if the extra protein throughout the day will help to speed my recovery. Also curious if I'll gain weight, something I've never managed to do. I'm on day 4 and my acne is worse, but I was a bit stressed the other day so its unfair to blame milk at the moment

I hope milk isn't the cause. I can't imagine a life without it....

Me neither, love the stuff. Would almost rather drink it than wine at restaurants, but it would cause too many odd stares...