Some questions

My apologizes in advanced.

I'm new here, new to the forums, to this great site, and to this type of training.

I've purchased Foundation 1 and Handstand 1.

Am dealing with some lower back pain. and have messed up shoulders, from wear and tear, (I know, not to great for a training regimen that focuses on "steel shoulder")

Hence the question before the purchase was am I suitable for this type of training?

I assumed the best answer that I would have gotten to that question would have been, "It depends on an individual's history: training, injury, body type, etc" or something to that extent.

Well I tried out the training. My first day consisted of

FL/PE1:   3x12s,   5r FL/PE1-iM    

I had some slight pain in the mid lower back while coming up into the cat position, maybe some slight tingling down my right leg down to my knee, sciatica-like almost, though I have no history of sciatica. Shrugged it off.

SPL/PE1:   3x3r,   5r SPL/PE1-iM

Was careful at first with the Swivel hips but I managed, though I got a real good stretch with the internal rotation.

HBP/PE1:   3x3r,   10r HBP/PE1-iM

The german arm swings were where I was scared, I have some labrum issues and this is where I tried it out very carefully and slowly, not like the guy in the video hows swinging it on high power.

RC/PE1:   3x3r,   30s RC/PE1-iM

Is there suppose to retraction and movement of the scapula through the movement or does the scapula stay fixed in one position throughout the whole movement.

Also regarding the table and table rock (FL/PE2-iM,FL/PE3-iM) Is that okay for me to get into knowing I have limitations on my shoulder ROM (or should I slowly work into it?)

And all the dips in the Hollow Back Progressions - can they be good, healthy on the shoulders? It seems like a lot of the dipping variations look like the shoulders are in extreme Anterior Humeral Glide. I don't know about others but I know I avoid that at all costs (and shouldn't others also?)

The reason I'm boring anybody who reads this to death is because I have congenital laxity, hence I ask all these precarious questions.

I went through the whole workout (Day 1) in 15-20 minutes tops! Is that it?!?

I am doing the 5 day fundamentals + 2 days handstand.

I didn't even break a sweat

It felt like a warm up.

Is this expected?

Can I add additional work? e.i. weights, running, bike, low level aerobic work?

Also had a question about my template, it has me doing

M/W/F: FL, sPL, HBP, RC work

T  : SL,  MN,   SLS

TH: SL, sPL, SLS   <---- is that a typo or is that how its suppose to be? I would think it should be MN?

 Handstand work is on T/TH.          

Thanks

And please feel free to correct anything I might have stated.

The bottom line is this: If you have congenital laxity, you are basically ALWAYS going to need to perform rotator cuff exercises on a daily basis if you want to adequately protect yourself from subluxing or dislocating completely. Additionally, you will need to pay attention to how you move.

You should not have significant humeral gliding in the dips. If your serratus anterior is functioning correctly this should not be an issue.

When not a result of thickening of ligaments, it is my belief that anterior glide is primarily caused by scapulothoracic dysfunction and not glenohumeral dysfunction. You get anterior tilt, and now you end up with lots of force being focused on the labrum itself instead of the bony glenoid fossa.

Don't over-think this stuff, but do pay attention to how you feel. A good dip may be outside your current ability to perform, simply due to lack of control over your scapula and shoulder girdle. You may also be one of those few people who are simply not going to be able to do dips, but the only way you will ever know is if you patiently work at improving your function for several years.

You may want to look into The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook so that you can see if some trigger point work or myofascial release in the relevant areas will help relieve your siatica.

It is also very, very important that you know whether or not you have any bulging discs if that does not help (and, preferably, even if it does).

Hey man, welcome to the community ! At first you don`t have to apologize for anything at all Having some health issues it`s really important to take this into account and mention it. Have you already been to a physio who checked your body ? In general you shouldn`t work through pain at all. So if you have some serious problems with either mobility or strength exercices it`s better to back off and go to a physio at first.

Concerning your schedule it might be even too much for the beginning. Maybe a 4 day integrated schedule would be already enough to begin with but everyone is unique so you have to see how it`ll go. Don`t worry too much about not having sweat and felt any fatigue at all. Later on the volume will increase significantly and that will lead to much more stress for sure. So in my opinion it`s just fine to start off with such "easy" workouts in order your body can get used to the elements. That beeing said, have you tested the mastery weeks for any of the elements ? This would show you where to start with each of the elements.

Last but not least you are absolutely right concerning the typo. It must be MN instead of sPL.

I hope i could help you a little bit. Maybe some other members with much more expertise will chime in as well

To echo that, Ive really started looking at the first week or few on a new element as learning the element before adding volume. Yes, Its normal for initial workouts to be v fast. They're still pretty quick for me (maybe 40mins at the outside) but not easy anymore!

Joshua Naterman - thanks for your input, really appreciated. I believe I'm in conjunction in regards to your thoughts of anterior humeral glide being more of a "scapulothoracic dysfunction and not glenohumeral dysfunction" hence I did ask a question about scapula positioning during some row variation in one of the progressions. Also wanted to get your opinion of doing dips with the scapula retracted, I would think that that would "prevent" the scap from tipping/ tilting anterior-ly (I think I just made a word)?

I'm all to familiar with scap positioning during any movement, spent months in rehab doing just that.

Thanks again

MarcinTrybalski said:

Hey man, welcome to the community ! At first you don`t have to apologize for anything at all Having some health issues it`s really important to take this into account and mention it. Have you already been to a physio who checked your body ? In general you shouldn`t work through pain at all. So if you have some serious problems with either mobility or strength exercices it`s better to back off and go to a physio at first.

 

Concerning your schedule it might be even too much for the beginning. Maybe a 4 day integrated schedule would be already enough to begin with but everyone is unique so you have to see how it`ll go. Don`t worry too much about not having sweat and felt any fatigue at all. Later on the volume will increase significantly and that will lead to much more stress for sure. So in my opinion it`s just fine to start off with such "easy" workouts in order your body can get used to the elements. That beeing said, have you tested the mastery weeks for any of the elements ? This would show you where to start with each of the elements.

 

Last but not least you are absolutely right concerning the typo. It must be MN instead of sPL.

 

I hope i could help you a little bit. Maybe some other members with much more expertise will chime in as well

Thanks for the welcome. I've been to physical therapy for my shoulder a while back so I'm good to go.

Regarding my schedule, I'm coming from a 3 day upper/lower/upper split with a day or 2 of aerobic activities and was doing a 4 day lower/upper + 1 day aerobic before my little back tweak. So I'm just trying out the 5 day thing, I'm sure I'll eventually reduce the volume/ scale it back some. I have not tested any of the mastery weeks because I really want to focus on the big picture and that includes the mobility, which I think a person can never have enough of.  

Thanks for clearing that up.

And yes you were of help (more than you could think of.)

Charm said:

To echo that, Ive really started looking at the first week or few on a new element as learning the element before adding volume. Yes, Its normal for initial workouts to be v fast. They're still pretty quick for me (maybe 40mins at the outside) but not easy anymore!

That goes right with my theory of the big picture. (I it sounds like the complete opposite of my original post of "are the workouts this short!?"

But I should enjoy the process, right?

Thanks

sam said:

Joshua Naterman - thanks for your input, really appreciated. I believe I'm in conjunction in regards to your thoughts of anterior humeral glide being more of a "scapulothoracic dysfunction and not glenohumeral dysfunction" hence I did ask a question about scapula positioning during some row variation in one of the progressions. Also wanted to get your opinion of doing dips with the scapula retracted, I would think that that would "prevent" the scap from tipping/ tilting anterior-ly (I think I just made a word)?

I'm all to familiar with scap positioning during any movement, spent months in rehab doing just that.

 

Thanks again

Great! Sounds like you are already thinking in a good way

You don't want to stay totally retracted, then you're basically putting yourself in a position where too much force is likely to be focused on the posterior labrum and capsule. There's always some level protraction in good dips, because this keeps the glenohumeral joint in  a nice, stable position the whole time. That's why we feel stronger there... our main job is to avoid excessive anterior tilt.

In fact, it's fair to say that you don't necessarily want full retraction at the bottom of a dip. 

Joshua Naterman said:

Great! Sounds like you are already thinking in a good way

 

You don't want to stay totally retracted, then you're basically putting yourself in a position where too much force is likely to be focused on the posterior labrum and capsule. There's always some level protraction in good dips, because this keeps the glenohumeral joint in  a nice, stable position the whole time. That's why we feel stronger there... our main job is to avoid excessive anterior tilt.

 

In fact, it's fair to say that you don't necessarily want full retraction at the bottom of a dip. 

Thanks a bunch. The whole scap positioning during dips is beyond me at this point, I'll worry about it when I get there. But I can definitely say you have given me some peace of mind regarding the whole scap positioning during movements.

That was my biggest concern, and the fact that the exercise videos and instructions don't get into that was a bit of a scare for me, knowing how OCD I am about scap positioning.

I have done dips in the past, that was a staple in my programing for several months while I was running 5/3/1, but back then I didn't have a torn shoulder and had no clue what and where my head, scap, arse, hips, etc where in relation to my body.

As you can see dips would be a RED FLAG to someone with shoulder issues. Maybe one day I'll be able to perform them (again.)

But in the mean time I'll shut up knowing that I'm in a good community.

Thanks a lot. Very much appreciated.